/ March 12, 2005 02:49 AM
The Governor of Utah has signed a new bill that would give illegal aliens a "driving card". I covered the protest against the card by open borders proponents in my Feb 18 entry "Hispanic Groups Oppose "Driving Card" In Utah
". While they say that a drivers license for illegal aliens is to make our roads safer they scoff when we give them a card that says they can drive, but they can't use it for ID to get on a plane or open a bank account etc...
Their arguments are so wide open and obvious it's laughable. I think we should just do some interior enforcement and ship illegals home rather than worrying about their driving, but that's just me.
Las Vegas Sun
Gov. Jon Huntsman on Tuesday signed a bill replacing regular Utah driver's licenses for undocumented immigrants with driving privilege cards that can't be used as official identification to board airplanes or register to vote.
The move comes a day after hundreds of demonstrators gathered to protest the bill, arguing that the cards amount to second-class status for minorities.
Umm, no not for minorities, for illegal aliens. For legal immigrants they can get a nice normal drivers license.
The driving privilege card must be renewed annually.
Bob Gallegos, president of the Hispanic lobbying group RAZ-PAC, vowed Tuesday to seek legal action against the law, and said he and other minority leaders would organize a one-day strike to prove how important undocumented workers are to the Utah economy.
Here's the funny thing about these strikes that they put on. We had one here in California and it proved that their disappearance had almost no effect
on peoples daily life. Actually it proved that without them things went smoother. There was less traffic and my kids classroom had 8 less kid in it making the student-teacher ratio actually bearable for the first time ever.
I hope they stage more of these "a day without a Mexican" type protests so that Americans will realize life wouldn't be so bad if we just rounded up all of the illegal aliens immediately and shipped them out and in the process reduced our class sizes, traffic and health care costs to manageable sizes.
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Posted by Digger on March 12, 2005 02:49 AM (Permalink)
Down here on the Mexican border, it's just out of control. The border patrol is now a broken force as they are facing an even greater invasion of illegals sneaking across. Worse, the border patrol is forced to play "Catch And Release Games."
Bush's Amnesty II policy is simply asinine.
Posted by: EdWonk on March 12, 2005 11:51 AM
It is true the border patrol have a tough job. But is the solution really to simply padlock the borders and send immigrants back to their home countries.
These solutions listed as are quite simply as assinine, if not more than Bush's Amnesty II policy.
Of course your not going to see a difference in a one day protest in California. All the businesses who normally rely on these people are industries who keep inventory as reserves. DUH
And unless you live a very small community in Cali, I seriously doubt you would see better traffic conditions. If you're that adamant about not wanting your kids in the same school as Hispanics, pay for private school, or home school them.
The fact is, every time you sit down at dinner to eat a salad, peel an orange, smell the beautiful flowers your wife bought at the sotre, remember these people made it possible. Without Hispanic immigrants here to the jobs that you're all too conceited to do, this state and many others like it would collapse in short order.
If the migrant farm workers are forced back south, who's going to pick the fruit, plow the fields, plant and harvest the crops, and process the wine you enjoy at your favorite restaurant... YOU? I doubt it.
Living in a small farming community along the central coast of Cali, I see nearly everyday what these people go through so you can have your salad. It's back-breaking tiresome minimum wage work that no one except these people are willing to do.
They deserve our respect, not blanket regressive policies that will only hurt our economy in the long run.
When a criminal is found, take care of it. But don't persecute them all as lazy, worthless people. They've probably worked harder than many of us could ever imagine.
Whether you want to admit it or not, WE, the white people, are the real minority. Globally, we make up maybe 20% of the total ethnic population of earth. It is not them that need to cahnge, it is us.
Posted by: David Eccles on March 12, 2005 09:41 PM
How did race get introduced into this discussion? And what is a "sotre?"
When you reduce your argument to a personal level, it loses credibility.
For your information, both my wife and daughter are Hispanic, not that it matters. They were born in Mexico, and both came to this country through legal means. (Though admittedly the kid was born a U.S. citizen while we were living in Mexico.)
I cannot, I will not, condone rewarding people that break our nation's laws. This flies in the face of some 800 years of English/American jurisprudence.
I don't know about others, but I was taught to shun lawbreakers, not "Respect" them.
People that follow the law should be rewarded for doing so. That is what legal immigration is all about.
Those that go to the front of the line should not receive a payoff for refusing to wait their turn.
It really is as simple as that.
I realize that it's impractical to deport some 9-11 million illegals. I would settle for using our resources to stop the massive invasion that is currently underway.
According to the census bureau, an illegal alien sneaks across the border every 28 seconds.
AND NOW FOR TODAY'S LESSON IN MACRO ECONOMICS:
As for who will do back-breaking work. Well, I will if the pay is high enough.
If I have a job that I want done and no one wants to do it, then I must raise the wages offered in order to attract willing workers.
Wages will rise. (Unless I subvert the laws of supply and demand by flooding the market with illegal labor, and then complain that "Americans won't do those jobs for that kind of money," thereby encouraging further illegal immigration.)
It is true that prices will increase in the short-run until another law of economics comes into effect. These are the laws of productivity and competition. Those economic forces will tend to keep prices low.
Today's Recommended Reading: "Economics" by Paul Samuelson.
It's an entertaining read.
Posted by: EdWonk on March 12, 2005 10:21 PM
sotre is actually supposed to be store, as in grocery store.
That being said, I too would do the job if, and that's a BIG IF, wages were to rise. Not likely to ever happen for these kind of jobs.
And since most of these jobs are seasonal, a large percentage of migrant workers either return south, or find more work elsewhere.
You're not a farm owner based on what you've stated about Macro Economics. If you are, you're one of the lucky few who can afford raising wages to attract "desirable" workers as you put it.
Posted by: deccles on March 12, 2005 10:33 PM
deccles, wages will not rise as long as there are a massive amount of people who are willing to do it under the table and pay no taxes. That must be solved otherwise wages won't rise.
Legal aliens and citizens would be more than willing to do the work if we tossed all the illegals out. The employers would have to pay more to the new legal workers and they'd have to pass that cost onto the store which would pass it onto the consumer, but in the long run you'd have more money into some workers pockets who would spend it. Also more taxes would be generated.
Right now you have illegals not paying taxes or social security, yet using schools, hospitals and all the services that legal workers pay into. You can argue that the lower prices offset this, but I'd rather have higher prices and have legal responsible workers that help pay into the system than a mass of uneducated illegal aliens who refuse to fit into society and prefer to live outside the law.
Posted by: Digger on March 12, 2005 10:53 PM
I was quoted by the writer of a previous comment as using the term "desirable" workers, and yet I cannot find that word used anywhere in my comment...
I did use "willing" worker however.
As for wage-pull inflation that may be exerted by using legal workers putting one enterprise (a farm, for example) at a disadvantage compared to similar businesses, (other farms) as long as all operate under the same constraints (with none enjoying the competitive advantage afforded by using illegal labor) none will be handicapped by labor costs because all will be subject to the same free-market forces.
Providing a level playing-field for free-enterprise should be the one thing that all can agree on.
Posted by: EdWonk on March 12, 2005 10:57 PM
Do you know of any resources which can clearly state what the taxpayer costs would be regarding finding, arresting and deporting illegal aliens? It would be interesting to know whether it is truly cost effective to do so.
Incidentally, many of these workers DO have taxes taken out of their pay (legal and illegal), and never recieve any benefits, such as social security later.
My apologies on using the term desirable. I posted before I could edit it ( by accident).
Illegal immigration will happen no matter what we do or how much money we spend. Just like the so-called "war on Drugs," any attempts we make to shut down our borders will fail to stop people from getting into our country.
The very concept of "borders" is by nature devisive and negative. Many conflicts, wars and deaths occur over these imaginary lines drawn on a map.
Re-thinking the way we view other peoples and working together is the only way these issues will be resolved. Europe is slowly, but surely moving in this direction and people are beginning to see the benefits of it. (I.E., the euro, the EU, transportation infrastructure, etc.)
Maybe it sounds utopian in nature, but wouldn't it make more sense and cost far less?
Posted by: deccles on March 13, 2005 09:56 AM
Actually, Mexico taking responsibility for it's own economy and not encouraging people to illegally sneak into our country instead would be a start.
There are many examples of this including: Mexico Suing The Minuteman Project, Record $16.6B Sent Back To Mexico -- their second highest industry next to oil, Snipers in Mexico shooting at Border Patrol from Mexico and the Mexican government not doing a thing, plot to kidnap and murder FBI agents at Texas-Mexico border exposed, Mexico May Use International Courts To Block Proposition 200, 47% of Hispanic citizens voted for Proposition 200. Better yet just go take a look at the Diggers Realm Immigration Archive to see the blatant support of illegals that the Mexican government is taking.
Then you're telling me we should just work together? We allow a legal amount of people from Mexico in this country every year, but they continue to allow and encourage a literal flood to cross the borders without stopping them. That is not "working together", that is sending your unemployed to this country in order to send money back to your country so you look like you're doing a good job as a leader when you really aren't doing a damn thing for those in your country.
I have no problem with immigrants sending money back to their home country, but only for legal immigrants who are abiding by laws and contributing to the system and services they are using here, not just raping them dry and leaving an empty husk behind.
The Mexican government needs to reform their system and stop keeping its people from living in poverty.
I have no problem with legal immigrants in our country, but there is a reason for the limitations. Our infrastructure, hospitals, education and social systems are only so strong. With the vast numbers of illegals here they are draining resources more than they are putting in and therefore stealing from all citizens and legal immigrants in this country.
It can be witnessed in the huge classroom size increase in California and the massive budget requirements of said system, California's Illegal Aliens Cost Taxpayers Nearly $9 Billion A Year $7.7 billion of which is directly attributed to illegal alien children in our schools here in California. The closing of hospitals in the LA area because of the flood of illegal aliens using the emergency room as their primary care facilities and laws that force the hospitals to take care of them without ever receiving payment and having to eat the costs.
So, when you talk of fair and "working together" let's make sure we're on the same page here.
To say the United States is not allowing immigrants into our country is absurd, we always have, but this massive stream of 3 million unchecked illegal aliens a year is insane and cannot be absorbed by our system, anyone who thinks differently has not looked into the actual numbers and current situation. Then again you could just say everyone in California, Texas and Arizona who want to stop the collapse of their states budgets because of unchecked immigration are just a bunch of racists.
Posted by: Digger on March 13, 2005 11:53 PM
Posted by: Digger on March 14, 2005 01:03 AM
Just because some of you are willing to pay higher prices in order to end the hiring of illegal immigrants doesn't mean the rest of the country is willing to. Americans love cheap. Why do you think Wal-Mart is such a prosperous company. As far as the FAIR report on illegal immigration they didn't take into account the tax paying immigrants which include brothers,sisters,and parents. They only take into account the usage of services. Second, since the 60's there has been a shortage of American citizens willing to work in farm labor. The US had to recruit Mexican farmers then because of the lack of workers. It's very easy to speak against illegal immigrants if you are not one or aren't a friend of one. You need to be in contact with them to really understand the situation. It's easy to speak from an outside perspective.
Posted by: anonymous on March 21, 2005 08:20 PM
I understand your point of view anonymous. I also understand the plight of the human perspective and that for the most part are hard workers. When you really dig into the numbers though it is costing us far more in the long run than it is saving us.
It's not just illegal aliens either, people who are paid under the table are also robbing from the taxpayers.
Posted by: Digger on March 22, 2005 12:50 AM
Hold everything. When someone breaks laws in any country they are prosecuted. When all is said and done they do the time for the crime. However in the U.S.A. it is almost the same as in any other country. I can see that when someone hires a so called "illegal alien" it is a crime. We must prosecute all the mothers that hire them as nannies, we must prosecute Wal-mart for hirring and paying them less than minimum wage, we must prosecute the CEO of companies for expoiting them, we must proscute the the fancy restaurant that hires them and will not pay them overtime for a double shift, we must prosecute the hotels and motels that hire them as cleaning crew, we must prosecute the nursing homes that will hire them to take care of the elderly, we must prosecute the members of country clubs for having the lawn manicured, and lastly we must prosecute the "illegal immigrant" for letting the aboove idiots take advantage of them. They should all be put in jail with the rest of the criminals and the companies should be closed and sanctions instated. A new CEO (Govt. regulated) hired. Ladies and Gentlmen, what we have here is the law of supply and demand, we are living in a capitalist country where everyone is just trying to stay on top.
Posted by: L. Garcia on April 26, 2005 12:01 AM
people who is against the goodwill of illegals inmigrants that their only sin was to aventure themself to a place and look for a better future for their families should deserve respect from those ignoratns fools who seems not to really know the reason why agains their own will moved to a country to face all kind of difficulties motivated by the idea of giving their loveones a better life, i am sure this racist people who are misjudging them, have never gone throught a hard situation where extreme poverty and looking your kids lacking of chances to suceed,you better remember that when we die, there wont be difference to the place we are going.
Posted by: annonimous on February 27, 2008 11:03 PM
people who is against the goodwill of illegals inmigrants that their only sin was to aventure themself to a place and look for a better future
If they do it illegally they should also be willing to accept the personal responsibility of being caught breaking the law. Or should we just give every house burglar a pass because he may have been doing it to feed his family?
You make the comment that it is all about race. It is about illegality and the rule of law.
Your assertion that all those opposed to illegal immigration are "racist people who ... have never gone throught a hard situation" is a poor statement. There are many in this country that have been adversely affected and disenfranchised by the consequences of illegal immigration. Being in their own country, they should have the right to require that it end and not be forced to have to deal with the demands of foreign people sneaking into their country.
It is not about hate, it is about what is right and illegal aliens are in the wrong and should say absolutely nothing or have any excuse when caught breaking the law.
It's a sad day in this country when those calling for the laws to be enforced are branded as hateful and the criminals, while the ones breaking the law, are given a pass.
Posted by: Digger on February 28, 2008 04:31 AM