I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. David has some valid points.

First of all, you are using Mexico and Cuba as examples and that's distorting the facts of good socialized medicine.

Almost all of Europe, Canada, Turkey and Australia have some system of socialized medicine and most of Europe has a higher quality of life than the U.S. does so it's not a matter of diverting funds from the poor.

It's true that there are downsides to socialized medicine like having to wait for optional surgery and other reasons, but there can be no bigger reason than leaving almost half of the population without any means at all.

As for the subsidising of medical degrees and not having any reason for becoming a doctor after years of long hard training other than to live exhuberantly, I disagree with you on that one also.

Actually I'd rather not have to deal with a doctor that thinks on those terms. There are many out there whom do it or would do it because of the love for others, amongst many other valid reasons, including the contemplation that they would economically be set for life, although not making 1/2 million dollars a year but an above average secure income, the pride in just being a doctor... an angel that heals people would be enough for many... and so on...

There are thousands of doctors whom have left the worldly comforts of civilized life in their countries and dedicated themselves to the more needy in poor countries... those are the motivations that really matter.

Also, I think David hit the nail square on the head when you consider all the monies we have been spent on war and although I believe that some wars were and are necessary I don't believe we should shoulder the total cost of any war... and that means not going it alone without concensus.

I have always wondered why, if the government wastes billions if not a trillion in social and medical programs, the government couldn't just give each American without a violent crime record a million dollars with certain controls to ensure it wasn't squandered, starting with the eldest and working their way back to 21 yr olds during a cycle period of 5 years and then start over. Technically the money "as Bush likes to say" belongs to the people anyway. There would be no politisizing of government programs, the elders could retire comfortably with no need for social security checks or medicare and the younger could build their reserves or start a business and create more jobs and more taxes would be paid, violent crime would all but disappear (if you wanted to secure your future cut). Even the poor would have something to look forward to.

I will say however that David is totally wrong when it comes to illegal, legal immigration or guest worker programs. The Mexican government has failed it's poor people miserably and we are paying the consequences. Those consequences involve changing the traditional American way of life, it's middle class workers and families and it's natural resources forever. A price that should be too high for any true American.

So if he really thinks Mexico is so much better or could care less about the threat of the "re-conquista" to his ex-homeland, then why not just renounce his American citizenship, we would be better off without him.

I am a 53 yr old independent Puertorican American voter and have been for many years. I tend to be conservative on many issues such marriage, immigration etc. but with liberal tendencies when it comes to uncontrolled greed and abuse in our capitalistic, unregulated, free trade philosophies. Immigration is now my pet peeve until the matter gets taken care of in favor of America and the traditional American way of life... Apple pie only, no tacos please... keep this country great, American workers and their families only... foreigners need not apply...

I think your response was spot on, David is living in a bubble if he thinks that everything is the same in the rest of Mexico as it is in the tourist areas of Cabo. Look at what happened after the Tsunami in Indonesia; the tourist areas got all the resources and small villages had to fend for themselves or nake due with very little that the government had left.

We don't need any socialistic fixes here in America, but we are sure to get them if the Democrats take over congress in November and the White House in 2008. The system in the this country is designed to reward those who strive to improve their situation and unfortunately we have a lot of people that would rather sit back and complain about it and expect the government to give them everything. That comes with a hefty cost to taxpayers and I for one don't want to pay higher taxes to subsidize our healthcare system.

I live in canada and we have a universal care system, doctors drive mercedes and BMWs, education is free and you can choose to go to a private school, we are not talking about mexicans or canadians, we are talking about the healt care system, sorry amigo pueltoliqueno.

Dear Mr. Digger:

I read your response to my comments regarding the Mexican health care system and feel a need to clarify some things. Judging by your comments about Cuba and Mexico, I wonder if you have ever visited either place or even traveled beyond a Mexican border town? I've visited both countries and live in Mexico and cannot understand a lot of your comments.

The health care situation in Cabo is representative of the whole country. Not just an isolated area filled with rich tourists as you allude.

There are multi-million dollar private facilities for those that can afford it, and public hospitals and clinics of various quality for the working class. Not only in Cabo, but in rural Baja towns, and throughout Mexico where I have traveled. Mexicans do not need to travel to America to stand in line at a charity hospital - they can do that in Mexico. And often not have to stand in line as there are more medical facilities and doctors per capita than in the USA. In fact there is a glut of doctors in Mexico and the doctors would be delighted to have more Gringo patients who can pay a little more than the locals and patients who even show up on time for appointments.

People have a choice for Medical care in Mexico - not so for 40 million Americans who are shut out of the American health care system. Check out Ameri-Med hospitals in Cabo and other cities on the net. Check out the first class hospitals in other cities such as Guadalajara or Chihuahua. Smart Americans visit these places for medical vacatons and save serious money on major treatments.

If you visit small towns in Mexico you need not worry about what to do for a basic medical emergency as you can easily walk into a government clinic staffed by nurses and a young doctor intern on his government required community service stint and get care. For five or ten bucks. If you need more advanced care, most likely the Red Cross or Bomberos ambulance (fire dept.) will take you to the nearest town for a donation. Not $500 bucks as in the States for a ride across town.

What is wrong with the American government subsidizing the education of doctors? Is there some God mandated taboo that says that taxpayers can't get something back for their money? American doctors always use the same worn out excuse that they have to go substantially into debt to pay for their educations and to open a clinic. If the US government subsidized medical education there would be more doctors trained and in government clinics that folks could afford.

The wealthy would still be able to pay through the nose for the same care in a deluxe facility with marble floors and ferns. Americans would then have better access to health care in the US as taxpayers do in most other Western Industrialized nations. And in Mexico.

As an American who often comes into contact with Europeans vacationing here in Mexico - I get embarrassed when I hear of the excellent health and dental care (free) Germans, French and others are used to vs. our lousy American system back home. One of the many reasons Americans enjoy retirement in Mexico is the low cost of medical care and medicines.

Re Your use of Cuba in comparing the concept of opening up health care to the majority of people instead of just those that can afford to pay for it, is a reactionary cheap-shot. Having a dual system of health care - one that is more socialized and government supported in tandem with private health care as in Canada, Western Europe and China has not turned Canada into a poverty stricken totalitarian country like Cuba. You know that's not going to happen in the USA just because the government one day gets enlightend and decides to educate doctors and make them available to average people. Government medical subsidies never turned a country into a totalitarian regime. Political revolutions are made by guns, not doctors armed with syringes.

The Mexican government has not "failed" its people as you stated either. It's really doing a fair job with its limited resources and history. Don´t forget culturally it's a society that by 1810 had just emerged from 350 years of Spanish Colonial rule. Were talking a nation of former Mestizo/Indian wage-slaves suddenly freed. And then it had another 100 years of revolutions trying to get itself organized into a country. Some of the turmoils were aided and abetted by American political interests. A popular saying in Mexico is "...that no revolution ever succeeded in Mexico that was not supported by America". Finally by the 1920's- Mexico became relatively stabilized. But during that previous hundred year period of instability Americans stole or bought at gun point, half the best agriculturally and minerally productive parts of the country i.e. Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Utah, California, and Nevada? Did I miss any? America killed most of its Indians or put them on barren reservations and let their cultures slowly stagnate or often die. But Mexican Indian and Spanish cultures blended and created a new race of people. Same Indians - two different solutions.

Mexico is doing a pretty damn good job for it's people for a country that was invaded numerous times by the Americans, French, British, William Walker type revolutionaries and even the Texas Rangers! The country was left with little more than a lot of desert, some oil and fabulous coastlines that Americans and Canadians now flock to for vacations and to build retirement homes. Don't be too hard on Mexico - it hasn't been easy for the country given all those who have tried to destroy it.

Today Mexicans in Cabo grumble that the Gringos are buying up all the beachfront and ocean view properties on both sides of the Baja peninsula. I tell them that Amercans are trading Los Angeles for Baja. If you want to buy a condo, luxury home, learn about whales or have a medical or dental vacation in Cabo because you can't afford care in the States - Goto: bajainsider.com There's a lot of fine articles on this Ezine written by American people that actually live in Baja and Mexico.

Keep on digging Digger. This kind of discussion by opposing points of view eventually gives the reader an educated perspective on issues. And that's good.

Thanks,

David Mandich

Hey Im from Mexico , I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU "CABO" GUY.Health care here in Mexico is free, eficient, and equal all across my country and all you people who posted disagreeing comments are wrong becasue i bet that all of you are not even Mexican, and probably the closest thing you have ever been to Mexico is "TACO BELL".I am from Nuevo Laredo, Mexico wich is right across the border from the city of Laredo, Texas U.S.A. and you all should see the number of Americans who flock here to our public health care becasue it is the same thing and at a cheaper price.And I can not believe you Americans thinking that just because you have a powerfull country you have the best health care in the world, you guys do not even have a universal health care to begin with, unlike your closest neighbours {CANADA/MEXICO} which do.