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Dena Schlosser, 35, Cuts Off Her Baby's Arms

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This is just disturbing and disgusting. I've heard of post-partum depression, but this just has to be more than depression. People don't go around severing the limbs of their children because they feel bad.


Dena Schlosser was sitting in her living room covered with blood when police arrived Monday. Her almost 11-month-old daughter lay fatally injured in a crib in a bedroom of the family's apartment in Plano. The child was pronounced dead shortly afterward at a nearby hospital.

Police have charged the 35-year-old mother with capital murder, but declined to reveal where she is being held.

Schlosser, who had a history of postpartum depression, had been investigated on child neglect allegations earlier this year, but Texas Child Protective Services had recently closed a seven-month investigation, concluding that Schlosser did not pose a risk to her children. Neighbors said she seemed to be a loving, attentive mother.


Asked if there was an emergency, Schlosser calmly responded "Yes," according to 911 tapes released by police.

"Exactly what happened?" the 911 operator asked.

"I cut her arms off," Schlosser replied, as the hymn "He Touched Me" played in the background.

"You cut her arms off?" he repeated.

"Uh huh," she answered.

Tipped by: Outside The Beltway

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Posted by Digger on November 23, 2004 11:37 AM (Permalink)

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This happened less than a mile away from my house. It's pretty disturbing and hearing this woman on the 911 call was very erie.

Posted by: Chad Evans on November 23, 2004 11:48 AM

I hope that one day, I am blessed with a family. I can't (and won't) understand how a mother could do this to her child. I believe that people really do have mental problems, but I'm sick of society allowing people to use them as a scapegoat for murder. If this woman is convicted, they will probably just send her to some mental hospital for the rest of her life. If I were that judge, I'd say screw the hospital and grab a branch. Depression doesn't make you want to kill your child, it makes you want to kill yourself, and frankly the world would be a lot better off without people like her.

Posted by: Catherine on November 23, 2004 11:57 AM

What killed me is that Texas Child Protective services wasn't quite sure whether they would take the other children out of the home while an investigation took place. Excuse me? Better safe than sorry, I say.

Posted by: sadie on November 23, 2004 02:01 PM

The Texas Child Protective or whatever they call themselves isn't exactly the model agency though. There have been numerous problems with this agency in the Dallas area alone.

On my way to work this morning, I passed the apartment complex where the baby was killed and there are flowers all over the place.

Posted by: Chad Evans on November 23, 2004 02:06 PM

While I share the disgust and outrage that all of you are voicing, I couldn't read your comments without feeling compelled to respond. I am a psychiatric clinician, and I perform emergency psychiatric evaluations in an emergency room. When we evaluate the risk posed by a psychotic or potentially psychotic patient, many factors are taken into consideration. Everyone in my field knows that, without a doubt, women suffering from postpartum depression (and potentially postpartum psychosis) are at the highest risk of any patients we see. You are all correct in asserting that depression doesn't make a mother want to kill her child - but psychosis (a complete break from reality) can and often does. Severe depression can be accompanied by psychosis, and the psychosis can develop very quickly and without warning. It is not easy to anticipate a psychotic break, even if you've seen similar cases before. This is the reason that screening for postpartum depression needs to be part of the discharge planning for every new mother and be incorporated into her new baby's regular well-baby checkups.

As for Child Protective Services, I cannot speak to that. They never seem to be very good in any state, do they? It's a tragedy and a travesty. It didn't need to happen. This woman needs to be held legally responsible for her actions to the extent that she is deemed competent. If she is found not to have been psychotic, I hope she fries.

Posted by: Alisha on November 23, 2004 03:41 PM

I read this yesterday, but couldn't bring myself to blog about it. Perhaps because I have an 11-month-old daughter this story really shook me up.

Posted by: Drew on November 23, 2004 08:07 PM

Child Protective Services aren't very good in California either. But I know part of the reason. Most child agencies are very underfunded. And a large part of whatever budget that they do have goes to pay layer-upon-layer of supervisory bureaucrats that don't come anywhere near children.

Posted by: EdWonk on November 23, 2004 10:25 PM

I think they should kill the bitch. But first lets cut off her arms.

Posted by: sue on November 25, 2004 04:25 PM

When I first read this story, I was in shock and tried to think of some possible explanation. As a mother of three, I can't imagine, even in my most trying times, actually going thru the motions of a crime as hideous as this. Yes, children (especially young ones) can bring you to the brink of many thoughts, but that is what separates humans from animals. She should get life - the inmates in prison will give her just due.

Posted by: Margaret on November 26, 2004 01:26 PM

I believe this woman deserves the death penalty, there is no excuse for such a horrible crime. Just as it says in the bible eye for an eye!

Posted by: Christy on November 27, 2004 12:41 PM

When a woman has postpartum depression or psychosis she cannot be held liable for her actions. I had postpartum depression after my third child. I felt overwhelmed. After that I had 5 more children but never had the depression again. My daughter had postpartum depression and felt like killing herself and her two children. It wasn't really postpartum depression but the medicine she was taking that gave her hallucinations. She stopped the medicine and I stayed with her for a week. Luckily the symptoms disappeared. Her doctor said the medicine wouldn't cause hallucinations but my daughter worked for a pharmacist and he said it definitely could. I also checked the Physicians Desk Reference and it said the same thing.

Another daughter works for the Children's Protective Services in Texas. It is not easy to remove a child from his or her home. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. Everyone knows there are bad parents but what about the foster homes?? Are they any better??And have any of you ever offered to be foster parents?? There aren't enough foster homes for all these kids. Have you volunteered for a child abuse prevention program in your home town? Do you support child abuse and neglect prevention programs with money if you're not able to give your time?

Posted by: Mary on November 27, 2004 02:28 PM

As the mother of a 10 month old infant, I can't begin to articulate how sickened I am by the heinous nature of this crime. The only thing I can think about is how that poor child suffered the last moments of her life. How a mother can commit such an evil act, and, ironically, in the name of God, against her own child is beyond my comprehension. And how a father could ignore the warning signs that resulted in the death of his child is equally despicable. I grieve for Margaret and all the children who suffer at the hands of evil caregivers.

Posted by: Katherine on November 27, 2004 04:42 PM

Hey Mary,

When you had postpartum depression, did you happen to slice your kid's arms off? Or drown the rest in a bathtub? Or roll them down an embankment while they were strapped in the car?No? Oh, OK. So, if you were depressed and managed not to kill any of your children, then you know that these women have an idea of what is right and wrong. They SHOULD be held accountable for their actions.

Posted by: Catherine on November 29, 2004 01:31 PM

I am a mother of a nine month old beautiful son and I praise God for him everyday.There are people out there who are dying to be parents and then you have some pathetic woman to do this to her own child. I hope she rots for the rest of her natural life. And I pray for the 11 month old in her last moments, she did not deserve this at all. Who gave Dena Schlosser the right to take her child's life.

Posted by: Lindsay on November 29, 2004 01:34 PM

Hey Catherine,

I am right their with you. I find no excuse not even mental for this or anyones behavior. I have 3 children of my own. I could not even imagine bringing any harm to them. I live in Plano and have a dear friend that lives in the building right across from where this happened. I drove their today to get my friend for lunch and knowing what happened in that apartment just made me sick. I will be so angry if she gets off to insanity. She KNEW very well what she was doing. I say no trial, why? It is a waste of time. Do away with her now. No, maybe let her sit in prison for awhile and let the inmates have their way with her. Make her suffer. I believe a tooth for a tooth, an eye for an eye and an arm for an arm.

Posted by: Denise on November 29, 2004 03:19 PM

Today there was a private graveside serivce for baby Margaret Elizabeth. God bless you little one and now you are in a wonderful place where no one can ever hurt you. I know we are all angry. Lets pray for the older 2 sisters. God Bless!

Posted by: Denise on November 29, 2004 03:25 PM

I am disgusted by this mother and what she has done. I have two of my own children, and yes they can make me crazy. But not once did I think of bringing pain, agony, or harm to them. They are babies for God's Sake.. I think that insanity is too easy.. If you think about it, all criminals are insane. A sane person avoids crime and it's consequences. A sane person does not cause this kind of terror to anyone, not to mention their own flesh and blood. How could you look into the eyes of an inocent baby and inflict the kind of torture this mother has? Imagine the last moments and all of you pesimists might feel Margaret's pain.

Posted by: carolyn on November 29, 2004 10:06 PM

As heinous as this crime is and in spite of the fact that I can not come close to imagining what would drive a parent--especially mother--to do such a thing, I do know what suffering from depression is like. It's a living hell, mostly because you know your pain and suffering is hurting your family.

I simply suggest this, that all of you holier-than-thou "mad mothers" look up the definition of psychosis. This woman is not shouting, "I'm crazy so I killed my child." She's not making excuses. It's the media and society, people familiar with such cases and recognize her symptoms for what they are. Stop being so cruel and judgemental, because we'll all be judged for that.

Do I think this is an excuse for her not to pay or suffer? No, but I am of the opinion that there's is nothing "man" can do to make her suffer anymore than she already has or will once she regains her sanity--if she does. However, I think people who are so severely mentally ill are the ones who should be locked up and possibly not ever released. If they are capable of murder at their worst moments, then you can't risk returning them to the streets for the simple fact you can't guarantee they'll stay on their meds or continue treatment.

Posted by: Lisa on November 30, 2004 05:53 AM


Posted by: WILLIAM DAGOSTINO FROM BROOKLYN on November 30, 2004 03:10 PM

Dena Scholsser must absolutely stand trial for her actions. She should he held accountable for what she did when she can understand the enormity of the crime.

However, to everyone who says "I'm a parent and I can't imagine ever killing one of my children just because I'm sad", I say this: Of course you can't imagine it. A healthy, rational person will never be able to understand the irrational decisions made by someone suffering from a psychotic disorder; someone who does not think, feel or perceive things like a mentally healthy person does.

Symptoms of psychotic disorders can disappear with treatment and resurface without warning, so lets not be too quick to judge the guilt of John Schlosser, of Texas CPS or of the mental health professionals who treated this woman for her symptoms back when her baby was born and declared her stable.

We will never understand it. So, maybe we should focus, instead, on making sure that she is held appropriately accountable and on educating women, families and ourselves about the dangers of mental illness. We're all horrified, so lets do something to stop these crimes from hapenning.

Posted by: Lynette on December 2, 2004 12:06 PM

good bye, dear one. I am so saddened that this world failed you when you needed it most.

Posted by: nancy on December 2, 2004 05:28 PM

little margaret elizabeth, dear, sweet, and oh so innocent little one. how you suffered none of us can even begin to imagine. we are so sorry--we are so so sorry for what has happened to you. if only we could have been there, we would have wrapped ourselves around you and protected you from such harm.

i will keep your soul in my prayers always, and i will never forget your name.

Posted by: nancy on December 2, 2004 05:47 PM

Ya'll women are some unstable creatures. My girlfriend is clinically psycho too, and quite frankly scares the shit out of me. Why are ya'll so fucked up all the time???

Posted by: Britt on December 3, 2004 02:16 PM

Death penalty. There is no excuse acceptable at all. An eye for an eye. Electric chair is the only answer

Posted by: Edna on December 4, 2004 09:24 PM

I am a registered nurse on the night shift in an ICU in the New Orleans area.I was surfing the web and ran across this site with the comments that have been posted.Yes, I think what has happened is awful, but where does anyone get off sitting in judgement of this pathetic woman. I have taken care of many individuals suffering from full blown psychosis, and believe me, at the time, they are OUT OF THEIR MINDS, totally disconnected from reality.So, lay off- society as a whole needs a thorough education on this issue.

Posted by: Marge on December 5, 2004 12:54 AM

It is very sad and disturbing what happened to that baby girl, but what disturbs me even more is the mob mentality that courses through most of these postings. Burn her! Kill her! What makes you any better than her if those are the only solutions you can come up with. What this woman needs more than anything is help. An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

Posted by: Ashley on December 5, 2004 05:01 PM

I happened across this website and would like to add that maybe it would just be best to lock the woman up in a padded cell for a couple of years and treat her condition with the available medication and during her time of recovery glue pictures of her armless bloody daughter and pictures of her with the blood all over her ALL over the wall preferably up too high for her to reach. Then she can see on a daily basis what she has done. Leave her like this for at least two years Then when she is at herself and realizes what she did to her child, Tie her up and SLOWLY cut her arms OFF and Sing to her the song HE TOUCHED ME WITH EVERY LITTLE SLICE. Prevent her from bleeding to death and when her arms are cut off beat the hell out of her untill she is bludgeoned to death.


Posted by: John on December 5, 2004 05:57 PM

I remember the first time I heard what this woman had done. I cried and my stomach was so very sick. My spirit mourned for this baby. I believe like many of you that she is with our Heavenly Father. I also believe that the spiritual world is far more complex than we can ever begin to imagine and that some depressions and psychotic episodes can be an expression of demonic enslavement. How great Satan must feel to see his handywork reaping additional evil with each and every horrible curse uttered about this very pitiful woman. I for one will pray for her to regain her sanity and to find some way to redeem herself. Certainly she belongs in a safe place. Safe for her and those around her. Dear Lord Jesus touch this woman and help her in only the way that you can. Soften the hearts of those who have eyes to see and ears to hear about her and give them the grace to say a prayer for this woman, this family, this world. Give us all knowledge and understanding of such unjustness. Help us to be peaceful. Create in us a desire to be more like you. Amen.

Posted by: Angela on December 5, 2004 10:25 PM

There is nothing a baby can do to deserve that kind of barbaric treatment. I was absolutely sick when I heard of it. I pray the baby went into shock immediately and didn't feel the incredible pain of having her arms cut off.

One day, this mother is going to wake up and realize what she did and she is never going to be able to forget it. For now, if in the midst of psychosis, she is most likely blissfully unaware. Once the medications kick in, she is going to have to face the enormity of what she has done to one of her own. That is severe punishment in and of itself, but I hope it doesn't stop there. I think she truly needs to pay for this crime. I don't think she should get an easy deal, whether insane or not. Just because she's sick doesn't excuse what's happened and what she did to this poor baby. I had post partum depression with both my children. Thank God it didn't turn into something more, but thankfully, I had early and aggressive treatment. I'm sorry Dena didn't, but just because she didn't does NOT excuse what she's done and I hope she pays the full price. Until we stop making excuses for these people, we will never stop hearing about these horrors.
What's up down south anyway? Something in the water driving these people nuts or what?

Posted by: Laurie on December 6, 2004 09:42 AM

This woman doesn't need help at all, she should pay for her crimes...postpartum my behind...I had postpartum but it didn't make me do any harm to my baby....Dena Schlosser should never see the world again nor her kids....I pray that God grants Margaret Elizabeth love and peace and to her family she left behind, hope this woman Dena Schlosser who says is her mother, is miserable for the rest of her life....no pity for her, I cry for Margaret Elisabeth....

Abby Banks

Posted by: Abby on December 6, 2004 09:43 AM

Abraham was told to kill his son Isaac. He only stopped the murder because an angel told him not to kill the boy.

Maybe Dena didn't have an angel telling her to stop.

Word on the web is that her family attended a church will a very strong minister. Women are just "jezebel's" to him. Also religious music was playing in the background.

Posted by: Anomar on December 6, 2004 02:40 PM

I have heard so many different things about this horrible tragedy, but the truth of the matter is that there is no excuse for harming a child, none what so ever. If Dena was so depressed, why did she not kill herself? I cannot imagine the pain this little girl felt as she looked up into the face of the woman who was supposed to protect her. I can only hope that Dena realizes what she has done, and that our justice system will prevail and this monster will get the harshest penalty, if she doesn't than that is telling women that it is ok to maim our children, as long as they suffer from post partum depression. Women have babies every day, and we all have suffered depression at one time or another. Yet we did not harm or kids, there is no excuse for Dena, Andrea Yates, or Susan Smith, they should receive the same punishment they inflicted on their children instead of getting a place to sleep and 3 meals a day at taxpayers expense. I pray that Margeret is finally free from pain, and is with God.

Posted by: Paula on December 6, 2004 02:53 PM

In response to: ANOMAR's previous post.

"Family says 'Church a factor' in baby's death"
is the Headline of todays article, by Lisa Falkenberg (AP).
(Daytona Beach News-Journal.(print edition)

Father-in-law said: "I don't think there is any question that what we saw happen here is known as postpartum psychosis. But that doesn't mean there aren't dynamics in force to push this person toward the psychotic break".

"Dena Schlosser was dangerously consumed by a self-described prophet and his church, according to members of her family".

"I'm an apostle and I'm a prophet", Doyle Davidson, the 72 year old minister said.
Davidson is the founder of the Water of Life Ministries in the early 1980's in Dallas, Texas.

Davidson was involved in an excorcism recently that nearly killed a female member of his church but the couple refused to press charges.

He was charged with 'public intoxification', then failed to appear and was found guilty.

Davidson said.."God will clear my record"..(?)

Google search below address for 'his story'.

Also if you go to dentonrc.com (newspaper) and do a search on Dena Schlosser you will pull up many article's concerning this tragic incident.

FYI: The older children are currently in State custody.

Insanity Plea = The Devil made me do it!

(aka..Doyle Davidson's devil's made me do it)

Posted by: Spider @ Daytona Bch., FL on December 6, 2004 06:57 PM

You people who have commented seem pretty unforgiving. I admit this was tragic for this child and I am sure the child didn't deserve this fate but what about some compassion for this woman who is obviously suffering from some sort of mental psychosis, after all can you imagine anyone in their right mind putting a baby through such suffering.

Posted by: Howard R. Lee on December 7, 2004 01:06 AM

There is a difference between postpartum depression and postpartum psychosis. Alot of us are saying "I had postpartum and I didn't hurt my kids." I'm one of those who had postpartum depression. Fortunately, it was recognized early and treated before it developed into psychosis. Postpartum depression is common. It doesn't involve a break with reality. Postpartum psychosis does, though and it seems obvious that Dena was suffering with this when she decided to cut her baby's arms off. It seems Andrea Yates suffered the same condition. As I said in my previous email, it's sad that these women become afflicted in such ways, but it doesn't mean they should get away with murder. The more we use the excuse as a way to defend them, the more we will continue to see this sort of thing occur. I sympathize with their plight, but it ends there. They still need to face STIFF penalties for what they did and I would be enraged to hear if any one of them gets a short, easy sentence. I know they're sick. I don't care. They have no right to be amongst the free if they did something as heinous as these women did. The kids they harmed have NO life. Why should they get to walk around free for any length of time? They shouldn't. The only justification for a short sentence in my mind is self defense. If you harm, you pay. Pure and simple. If you harm and did it because it was either that or you die, that's one thing. Obviously, none of these children ever threatened to kill their mothers, therefore, there is no justifiable excuse. Also, from what I read, each of these women knew what they had done was wrong. Insanity defenses are based on the assumption that the perpetrator doesn't make that distinction, they don't know the difference. When they do know it's wrong, crazy or not, they're guilty!

Posted by: Laurie on December 7, 2004 06:31 AM

I have two little boys 1 1/2 and 5 months and the only thing I can say is there isn't that much postpartum depression in the world that would make you do such a horrific act to your child.

It breaks my heart that the little girl lost her life that way, but one thing for sure and two for certain she will not have to suffer anymore. Remember this "God does not like ugly and could care less about pretty" and children are our gifts that he gives us that we are supposed to care for and nurture just as our mothers and fathers have done for us. That baby will not suffer any more Thank God, but as for the mother she's going to suffer for the rest of her being here on earth.

Posted by: Danitra on December 7, 2004 09:11 AM

I have two little boys 1 1/2 and 5 months and the only thing I can say is there isn't that much postpartum depression in the world that would make you do such a horrific act to your child.

It breaks my heart that the little girl lost her life that way, but one thing for sure and two for certain she will not have to suffer anymore. Remember this "God does not like ugly and could care less about pretty" and children are our gifts that he gives us that we are supposed to care for and nurture just as our mothers and fathers have done for us. That baby will not suffer any more Thank God, but as for the mother she's going to suffer for the rest of her being here on earth.

Posted by: Danitra on December 7, 2004 09:13 AM

Most of the post's here seem to be what I would call "action & reaction/ary"....

Why not focus instead on the principal's of...."Cause & Effect"?

God seems to have been present, in the background, in this case as well as in the case of Andrea Yates.

I wonder why this is so and if there is a latent connection contributing to the "Cause & Effect" that leads up to these sort's of "Action's & Reaction's".

Any Idea's....?

Posted by: Spider on December 7, 2004 11:22 AM

Post Partum psychosis, that's bogus.....Dena Schlosser needs to face her crimes for the so called human being she is supposed to be....tell me, how one can standing or sitting over her little Margaret Elizabeth hearing her scream as her so called mother takes the life out of her...it's sickening to see opinions of those who think we should help Dena, past surgery or whatever, she needs to face the music and deal with what she did.....who was there for Margaret Elizabeth in her last moments....and I pray to God that John Schlosser doesn't get his 6 and 9 year old daughters back, he should be held accountable for knowing the fact...may justice be served and Dena Schlosser pay ....death penalty would be the easy way out, no she should stay awake every waking hour and listen to her baby scream 24/7.....I am so sorry the Schlosser sisters and especially for Margaret Elizabeth for the world failed to protect you from monsters who was to nurture....many hugs and kisses to you Margaret Elizabeth ( I have a nine month old son whom I love with my own life and it hurts me when I have to raise my voice to him when I need him to behave.....).....

love you Margaret Elizabeth ...I said a little prayer for you every day,


Posted by: Lindsay on December 8, 2004 06:03 AM

is it possible for you to forgive this woman who has done this? could it be that if you cannot then you have something inside you that is the same as what drove her to commit this act? i dont know, i only know that there are many people who can condemn other people to death but cannot bring themselves to "flip the switch". just ask any of the hooded corrections officers who have to participate in the "death penalty".

Posted by: james on December 8, 2004 08:20 AM

to all those who try to support Dena, it is so wrong what she did regardless the sanity and the postpartum and her so called post surgery

the death penalty is an easy way out, she should have to face every day of her existing pathetic life coping with the facts of her horrible crime.....

Margaret Elizabeth did not come into this world to be killed by a monster.....

psycho or not, Dena needs to stand trial and take it like a human being, medicated or not


Posted by: Mallory on December 8, 2004 08:42 AM

to all those who try to support Dena, it is so wrong what she did regardless the sanity and the postpartum and her so called post surgery

the death penalty is an easy way out, she should have to face every day of her existing pathetic life coping with the facts of her horrible crime.....

Margaret Elizabeth did not come into this world to be killed by a monster.....

psycho or not, Dena needs to stand trial and take it like a human being, medicated or not


Posted by: Mallory on December 8, 2004 08:43 AM


I am also certain that Dena did not come into this world so that, years later, she could kill her child Margeret Elizabeth.

But she did!

So why did she????

Understanding something is not the same as supporting it.

Posted by: Spider @ Daytona on December 8, 2004 09:41 AM

what is there to understand, this monster took a life, it was not hers to take....support and love is for Margaret Elizabeth not for Dena Schlosser, I am with Mallory.....

Posted by: jenna on December 9, 2004 07:07 AM

Some folks seek understanding and other's don't.

It's all well and good that you grieve for the one
that is no longer with us, but what will that
accomplish? Nothing that's what!

I ask what motivates someone to do such a heinous
act and you have no answer/s. Why is that?

Well maybe after you are finished with venting
your outrage you will think more about what's
behind these sort of 'human atrocitie's'.

Or, most likely, you will simply move on to other
human atrocities and continue to vent emotions and
never really think, about..."WHY"

Posted by: Spider @ Daytona on December 9, 2004 09:33 AM

I think that woman who called herself that poor little babies mother needs to have the same thing done to her......... post pardum depression is such bull shit..... i got depressed after having both my kids but the thought of cutting their arms off or even hurting them in any way never crossed my mind. i just wish someone would have gotten there before this happend to that poor baby... and there is an article that claims this woman as a "gental soul" well im sorry but there is nothing gental about that bitch...... i hope she gets what is coming to her in prison.....

Posted by: Diane on December 9, 2004 05:40 PM

Then I suggest that you volunteer to be "The One"
to 'cut off Dena's arms'.

Could you 'deal with that' Diane?

In fact, you could shove Dena's arm's down her
throat while you are 'at it'.

Could you deal with that Diane?

Or is it easier to let 'someone else' to do your
dirty work....


Posted by: Spider @ Daytona on December 10, 2004 01:34 AM

Then I suggest that you volunteer to be "The One"
to 'cut off Dena's arms'.

Could you 'deal with that' Diane?

In fact, you could shove Dena's arm's down her
throat while you are 'at it'.

Could you deal with that Diane?

Or is it easier to let 'someone else' do your
dirty work....


Posted by: Spider @ Daytona on December 10, 2004 01:38 AM

im sorry but so many texas mothers have been killing their children that im wondering if they are insane or not getting treatment they need and WHY ARENT THEY???? I had ppd with my kids and never once thought of killing or hurting them, so i think its not just ppd but heck maybe it is all cult related and im so surprised the fathers arent more involved. This womans mugshot even looks spooky like shes got a half smile on her face.....this woman called 911 so she wasnt as delusional as not to have known what she was doing and that leaves me to believe it was premeditated

Posted by: kim on December 10, 2004 07:25 AM

im sorry but so many texas mothers have been killing their children that im wondering if they are insane or not getting treatment they need and WHY ARENT THEY???? I had ppd with my kids and never once thought of killing or hurting them, so i think its not just ppd but heck maybe it is all cult related and im so surprised the fathers arent more involved. This womans mugshot even looks spooky like shes got a half smile on her face.....this woman called 911 so she wasnt as delusional as not to have known what she was doing and that leaves me to believe it was not just mental illness but something more evil inside her. too many of these women use ppd as an excuse but guess what.... it isnt any different than a serial killer to me that is also just as sick in the head but they still deserve to get punished it wasnt a freak accident it wasnt a merciful way to kill anything or anyone its plain evil

Posted by: kimmers on December 10, 2004 07:37 AM

Diane if you want to hold her down first, we can each take a turn cutting her arms off. For anyone to sit and say that this bitch should not be held completely responsible and should not be put to death is absolutely ignorant. If - and that is a big IF- postpartum depression is what actually caused this or even if it psychosis, who in the hell wants this cunt running around in 5 or 10 years after the mental hospital? So she can have more kids? People should need a god damn license to have kids!!!

Posted by: Kelly on December 10, 2004 09:00 AM

Listen up people. There is a huge difference between post-partum depression and post-partum psychosis. I have never heard of anyone who is depressed hearing voices. When you are hearing voices telling you to do something you have a major problem and the other side of the problem is you don't know you have a problem. I know about child abuse. My grandson was a victim and he was left blind as an indirect result. This happened over 30 years ago. 24 years ago I started a crisis nursery for the prevention of child abuse and neglect in El Paso, TX. We try to reach out before the abuse occurs. We're not always successful but we keep trying. You cannot reach a mother who is having post-partum psychosis. She doesn't know how sick she is.

Posted by: Mary on December 10, 2004 12:30 PM

I realize there is a big difference between postpartum depression and psychosis. I still say that, regardless, a person who committs such a terrible act should NOT be allowed to go to treatment and get out any time soon. I believe that regardless of whether they get the treatment they need or not, they still need to pay the penalty for murder, which is exactly what this was. If I had done such a thing, I'd probably be spending the rest of my life in prison. If she goes to a treatment facility, which I agree she needs, once they deem her fit to be discharged, she should then go to prison. I don't advocate death for her as many here do. Mental illness is a mitigating factor, however she shouldn't have the quality of life afforded to persons who refrain from murder. Her daughter will never be able to live out her life. Why should Dena be able to do so with any quality besides what prison has to offer?

Posted by: Laurie on December 10, 2004 12:47 PM

I'm surprised and dismayed at the ignorance and violent mentality in some of the comments posted here...those of Diane and Kelly, for example.
I'm not saying that Dena Schlosser shouldn't be punished for what she did. Of course she should be held accountable. And I agree that, if she is ever stable enough to be released from getting treatment for her illness, she should go straight to prison to serve her sentence. She certainly won't see her other children again.

But for anyone to say that they would just like to saw her arms of themselves makes them just as sick and depraved as she is...maybe even more. Dena Schlosser's horrific, violent act was the result of a psychotic break from reality.

All of you who say "burn her, kill her, fry her, chop her up", what's your excuse for being violent? Healthy, intelligent people would not sink to the level of a mentally ill murderer, so get a grip.

Also, Dena did NOT call 911 herself. A friend of the family did after John Schlosser asked her to check in on Dena.

Posted by: Lynette on December 10, 2004 01:07 PM

You make a lot of sense, Lynette. I, too, wonder what is up with seemingly rational people saying such irrational things.

I would never want to hurt Dena. I just think she needs to be somewhere where she can never hurt another person again. I realize she may recover from her present illness, but I would never feel comfortable knowing she could hurt another child.

Posted by: Laurie on December 10, 2004 01:38 PM

This woman was not rationally thinking, she couldnt have been, but that doesnt mean that what she did should be somehow deemed approtiate actions for a irrational crazy woman, all of you who say that well she was depressed or whatever, and she should get help and all that, i dissagree, i say she should ger the freaking electric chair, something very painful that lasts a while, thats sick what she did, and she should pay for it mojorly, can you oimagine the pain she put her child a BABY through and then freaking watched it cry and bleed, thats just too much for me, she should die herself.

Posted by: Heather L on December 11, 2004 04:00 PM

i live in plano, a couple of miles away from the apartments where this tragedy happened. my friend's dad was one of the police officers that found margaret. he got a call that a lady cut off her daugther's arms. he went into the apartments and found the lifeless armless baby girl in the crib covered in blood. just picture that your mind: an 11 month old baby girl dead in her crib, no arms, covered in blood...this story was all over the news in plano. everyone mourned for margaret. i don't understand how people can feel sorry for dena. she obviously knew what she was doing. i just don't get how in the hell can you do that to your own child. and when they played the 911 call on the news the operator said what happened? and when i heard dena say in the calm evil voice: i cut her arms off. i broke down crying.
why are people mourning for dena i don't get why people want her to seek help and they want her to get healthy. and just beause she is "insane" doesn't mean she should get off the hook. she cut off her 11 month old daughter's arms off. i could never imagine killing a child, nevertheless my own, watching her suffer and scream covered in her own blood. the excuse of post partum depression and phycosis does not make it alright to murder your own child. dena should not be living. her daughter will never get to live out her life so why should dena get to live. she should receive a painful death as she did her own daugther.
god bless you margaret elizabeth. may you be in no more harm. you walk in the footsteps with the lord now. i pray for you always and forever.


Posted by: Jennifer on December 12, 2004 11:36 AM

I do not believe Dena should get away with what she did to her poor baby but I do believe that she was not in her right mind when she did it. Here in Texas people who do these things are tried and convicted if they are in their right mind or not. But I personally think that women with post-partum psychosis should get some help. Do you really think that once Dena comes to her senses, if she ever does, that she will be able to live with herself after what happened?

Posted by: Mary on December 12, 2004 11:50 AM

Did anyone ever compare cases? Take for example the college student who hid her pregnancy, then we she went into labor at a party - hid in the back and then with the help of her fellow college "sisters", killed the baby. Or the young high schooler, who though she had everything going for her and found out she was pregnant, killed her newborn baby in the shower. Then there is always the baby found in trash can during prom scenario. I believe that these girls, knew what they were doing. They were just uninformed. Either they were scared and thought they had no where else to turn, or they didn't want to take the responsibility of a child and end their party years. Now compare these to other mothers, who actually wanted their children and planned for them. I have read that most woman are fine after pregnancy, some get baby blues, other postpartum depression, and then a very few get the postpartum psychosis. Take for example the woman who drowned her children - I read that after her first child she told her husband she didn't want anymore. He said too bad, and kept getting her pregnant. I don't know the full case with Dena, but honestly if she needs help - help her in a psych ward. Once she is sane, then charge her and put her in prison. This is a trajedy. My heart does ache for this little one. I have two of my own with another on the way, if I ever start feeling stressed beyond the breaking point (I also have a mental condition) I let people know. I say: I need to get away, or don't leave me alone with the kids, or I call people and say come over here I need help. If that doesn't work or help, I leave them where they are, away from me incase I do get so stressed I may hurt them. Also, I have no problem calling my local emergency nursery or even 911 if I don't think I can handle it anymore (though it has never gotten to that point). I would much rather they be taken away from me then for me to take them away from this world.

Posted by: Amber on December 12, 2004 09:49 PM

many people have voiced hatred for this mother who cut off the arms of her baby. think about it for a minute, you have to be insane to do what she did. where was her family? obviously she must have shown signs of her illness. her family and child protective services are more responsible.

Posted by: Donna on December 13, 2004 05:27 PM

many people have voiced hatred for this mother who cut off the arms of her baby. think about it for a minute, you have to be insane to do what she did. where was her family? obviously she must have shown signs of her illness. her family and child protective services are more responsible.

Posted by: Donna on December 13, 2004 05:27 PM

Donna, I don't think you understand the nature of this type of illness. Again, symptoms of psychosis can disappear with treatment and resurface without any warning at all. There would be no way to predict that Dena might commit such a violent act, especially when she had never exhibited any violent tendencies before. Even if she had been acting strangely, she had never been violent in her life, so the idea that she would kill her child would never enter into the mind of her husband. Why should it? It is possible that there were no obvious signs of mental illness.

On the other hand, I'm sure there are other details that we still don't know; maybe she had been acting wierd. If that's the case, it was her husband's responsibility to get her some help, or call CPS again, or whatever. But if you just need someone to blame to feel better, then lets put the responsibility squarely on the person that committed this crime, insane or not.

Posted by: Lynette on December 14, 2004 07:21 AM

Has everyone forgotten that she spoke to her mother the day before and her mother thought she sounded "euphoric" and knew something was going on? What about her husband calling the daycare and having them check on her? He knew something was wrong. If that doesn't show that she knew what she was doing and if it doesn't show that she knew enough to "hide" her intentions, what does? She knew she was going to kill the baby and she knew she couldn't let anyone know or they would stop her. Does that show that she is insane or that her "illness" stopped her from thinking rationally? I don't think so! In my opinion that shows that for AT LEAST a day before sawing off Margaret's arms her own mother was premeditating the death of her child. I don't think that proves insanity at all. She knew there was consequences and she knew that if anyone else knew what was going on, they would stop her. By looking at pictures of her after this happened, she looked like a coked-out freak. So unless coke makes you "temporarily insane" in Texas I am sure she will get what she deserves. Maybe someone should check and see if coke or crack makes you hear voices.

Posted by: Kelly on December 14, 2004 09:00 AM

I don't know whether she was under the influence of any drugs or not, but to answer the last poster's question, coke/crack can cause hallucinations.

I'm not sure why anyone concludes premeditation in this case. Because the family was concerned about her doesn't necessarily mean she was already planning anything. She was euphoric, but she wasn't saying she was going to kill anyone.

I'm not sure where the blame lay. I don't understand blaming the family or the people who had already investigated her. They were concerned and the father had someone check on her. I'm sure if they knew she could kill anyone, they'd have acted more strenuously. I doubt highly they felt whatever was going on was going to lead to murder. They aren't fortune tellers. Blaming them seems misplaced. The only blame here is on Dena herself. She did it. She may not have understood what she was doing, but to conclude that anyone else should have forseen this, to me, isn't fair.

Again, she may be crazy, but she is still responsible, therefore, after she gets the mental help she needs, she needs to go to prison...forever.

Posted by: Laurie on December 14, 2004 09:47 AM

Hey Mary,
Just because you hear voices in your head doesn't mean you have to listen to them.

Posted by: Catherine on December 14, 2004 12:35 PM

Hey Catherine,

You're absolutely right. Just because a person hears voices doesn't mean they have to act on those voices.

Prior to my job now, I worked as a psychiatric nurse for almost 20 years in a state hospital. Most of the clients I had will admit to hearing voices and most of them knew these were just that, voices, and they rarely, if ever, acted on what the voices were telling them to do. These people fit the definition of insanity, and still, they knew enough to know not to act out. I realize Dena didn't have any real treatment, but even clients who haven't had any treatment usually refrained from acting on the voices. If voices were telling her to cut off her baby's arms, she DIDN'T HAVE TO DO IT. She could have told someone, her husband, mother, whatever. I can't say how I'd act, but I would like to say if a voice were telling me to hurt my child, I'd question that voice! Over the years, I have seen people struggle with voices. I have seen people talk about what was being said in their head. I know sometimes people want to act on it, but because what they are hearing is crazy, they checked themselves into the hospital for treatment, instead, or they told someone what they were hearing. Blatantly psychotic people do psychotic things, but when they murder another human being, they need to pay the price. And, to me, the price is not a prolonged stay in a hospital, it's prison for life.

Posted by: Laurie on December 14, 2004 01:03 PM

Has anyone seen any medical results that might help us to imagine Margaret NOT suffering as much as we think she could have? Like is it possible that she would have passed out from shock pretty quickly? It causes me severe pain to imagine what she could have gone through, and I really look hard for some kind of peace about that. I've even wondered - could Dena have drugged her first? Or bopped her over the head and knocked her unconscious? Wishful thinking, I know... but that is what I pray constantly for. I look for updates on that, but there is never anything. So, I suppose we will never know for sure - but I still hope and pray fervently for it.

Posted by: Holly on December 14, 2004 02:54 PM

Suppose you were brought up to believe that you must obey God and you thought he was commanding you to do something. I would like to know what happened to Dena but so far I haven't heard anything. Also, I think I read somewhere that when she made the call the baby was crying in the background. Does anyone remember that? It is a heartbreaker and I know that all of you are practically traumatized by this incident. I can't get it out of mind and that was how I happened to find this site.

Posted by: Mary on December 14, 2004 07:08 PM

I am a mother of 10 month old Madison Grace and I suffered post partum for 3 months but it didn't make me do this horrible act against my baby Madison, to Holly, for whatever case this pathetic human being Dena Schlosser, she deserves to rot for the rest of her natural life. To stand over Margaret Elizabeth and do the heinous crime and stare into Margaret's eyes is unforgivable. Dena does not deserve any compassion of any kind, this is a human life she took, Who gave Dena permission to snatch the life of precious Margaret......and if Dena gets off on insanity, that is despicable, because calling 911 after the fact, she knew what she had done. Like Yates and Peterson, Susan Smith....Dena Schlosser should be locked up for the rest of her natural life with constant recordings of Margaret Elizabeth's last screams and never to have any contact with any human being but her pathetic self and the damn voices she claims to hear. Don't say poor Dena to us again, she doesn't deserve pity, just look at her picture ....and a gentle soul ......forget that.....that is all bull crap......to snatch life like Dena did....she belongs locked up...

Riley A

Posted by: Riley on December 15, 2004 03:50 AM

Responding (again) to Mary.
I understand what it's like to be raised to believe in God, with my whole heart and soul. I'm Episcopalian, from the south, and I have lived here all my life.(No, I'm not a backwater bible beater.) Granted, a short life, as I am only 22. But I was also raised to believe in Him as a loving and caring God, and to think that God would be telling someone to cut their baby's arms off...well, I would think that maybe God was a little off His rocker.

Posted by: Catherine on December 15, 2004 07:32 AM

When I said I thought that Dena may have heard (in her own mind) God telling her to do this terrible thing, it's because I am trying to understand how something like this could happen. I am very involved in child abuse prevention and its important for me to know why, why, why people do these kinds of things! A sudden fit of rage is one thing but cutting off your child's arms takes time. It makes me sick to think about it.

Posted by: Mary on December 15, 2004 07:42 AM


Posted by: Catherine on December 15, 2004 08:01 AM

Mary... thankfully the 911 call included the operator asking Dena if the baby was conscious and she said no. So, I do not think Margaret was crying in the background. However, we don't know how long before that call the sickening act occurred. Remember, Dena talked to the father, John, on the phone as he was en route in his car from work, then he called his friend who worked at a daycare and asked him to check on things. That person then called 911, and 911 called Dena. To Riley - I never said poor Dena. I do not feel sorry for her, I am sickened by her. I just want to know what experts feel about how the poor baby might have suffered - I pray it was only SECONDS before she went into a sort of shock... but I guess there is really no way to know. This is what I worry about the most. She would have bled out within an hour, but how long before she PASSED out? Please, let it have been fast.

Posted by: Holly on December 15, 2004 08:15 AM

I though I would update the facts about this case as we know them right now:

Dena was not at all raised in a religious home. She started attending this fundamentalist church after moving to Texas and learning that her mother was gravely ill.

Dena's husband asked a friend to check on her after Dena called him and admitted what she had done. There was no "baby crying" during the 911 call.

Dena was treated in both in-patient and out-patient facilities for her mental illness after her baby was born in January.

Dena is being treated right now with Haldol (an anti-psychotic) and will be evaluated by a psychiatrist to determine whether or not she is competent to stand trial.

The medical examiner reports that there isn't any evidence of other wounds on the baby, indicating that the baby would have gone into shock quickly from blood loss.

All these details are availabe online thru the Associated Press.

Each new detail is heartwrenching, but lets not forget that we don't know all the facts, lets not presume to know what happened here. And lets certainly not propogate the violence of this act by expressing our outrage through even more violent thoughts and comments. Dena will be judged according to the law once all the facts come to light and we can only have faith that she will face the stiffest of penalties. Hopefully, by then, she will be lucid and aware of what she did so that she can understand her crime and the payment for it. Otherwise, what justice is served in punishing her?

Posted by: Lynette on December 15, 2004 08:37 AM

I'm not certain, of course, but my medical background makes me believe that the incredible shock of that assault would make the poor baby pass out just as a way to defend herself. Our bodies will do all sorts of things to protect itself and becoming unconscious is just one of the body's ways of handling horrific assault.

Every time I think of it, I want to put it out of my mind immediately and it wasn't happening to me. Imagine if we can barely deal with thinking about it, a person going through it, particularly such a tiny person, would just shut down...at least I hope so.

Hopefully an artery was cut right off, causing the body to shut down just as a result of the blood loss, but if not, I would definitely assume the trauma would cause the mind to say "I can't handle this" and just shut off.

This may just be my wishful thinking, but medically speaking, it makes sense. Bodies are really amazing at protecting themselves from trauma. People who have suffered horrible abuse very often disassociate (the mind goes somewhere else during the abuse) as a way to handle what's happening to them. Let's pray that happened in this case.

Posted by: laurie on December 15, 2004 08:40 AM

whatever little Margaret Elizabeth went through in her last moments is unthinkable and what Dena did is unforgivable. Dena can get all the help she needs but it should not be on Texas tax dollars. I really wish people would stop defending this pathetic Dena, lock her up and throw away the key.....the only help Dena should get is to be away from everyone ....Margaret Elizabeth, God bless the little ones, she did not deserve this at all. And for whoever thinks we should pity Dena, forget it......she knew exactly what she was doing to her own child....hearing voices, well she should have heard her little Margaret Elizabeth crying for help. Dena Schlosser doesn't deserve out sympathy at all. And there is nothing to understand about her....we need to protect her two other daughters from their father and their mother.

MacKenzie D

Posted by: MacKenzie on December 15, 2004 08:49 AM

I agree the children need protection from Dena, but what has the father done? People want to blame Rusty Yates, also. Why? Haven't they suffered enough, losing a child or in Rusty's case, five? I don't understand blaming the fathers. The blame lay squarely on the people who did the crimes, the mothers. I'm not sure what makes us think these men were mind readers and should have known it was going to happen. I doubt either of them thought their wives could murder their children and if they did, I'm sure they would have done something to prevent it. They are mourning the loss of their kids and their wives, also; their lives have been permanently damaged. I understand everyone is angry and looking for blame, but put it where it belongs, on the perpetrators, not the ones who lost more than we could ever imagine.

Posted by: Laurie on December 15, 2004 10:34 AM

The father should be held accountable for knowing the fact that his wife made a statement that Dena said "I am going to give the child to God".........the father knew his wife had postpartum and was disturbed, he failed to protect little Margaret Elizabeth....no both parents lost the right to be parents when they can't help themselves and harm their own children....No John Schlosser and Dena Schlosser do not belong being parents ever, grieving a loss, too late for that......


Posted by: Manion on December 15, 2004 10:39 AM

It's easy for us all to sit in judgement, isn't it? Again, the fathers' are NOT mind readers and plenty of people have postpartum and never EVER kill their kids, so to expect these Dads to know what their wives were planning is shortsighted and, I believe, way too judgemental.

As a husband and father, I'm sure you really believe your kids will be safe with your spouse, their mother. This crime is unimaginable to all of us, none of us can even believe it happened, but somehow we assume that the fathers KNEW it was going to happen and just ignored it. Do we REALLY think John Schossler went to work that morning knowing his wife was going to murder his daughter and just said, "Ah well, I gotta go to work, so best of luck to them, hope she doesn't kill her!" That's just absurd. Again, easy for us to judge after the fact. I wonder how any one of us being in the thick of it all would have reacted. I think we'd have assumed our spouse wasn't a murderer. I think we'd have called often and checked in. I don't think any of us could have predicted such an atrocity, yet, somehow, the husbands were supposed to. Pretty hypocritical.

Posted by: Laurie on December 15, 2004 10:54 AM

I don't agree in blaming the father. Men really do not know anything about what a mother goes through emotionally or with their hormones after they have a baby. Not to be totally sexist either, but there are a lot of women out there that say a bunch of crap just to get their husbands attention and after awhile men blow it off as they have their minds on other things.

My wife used to say all kinds of weird stuff when she was a stay at home mom (she couldnt figure out computers otherwise I think she would have discovered chatting). Once she got a little job those things went away because she got her additional social interaction outside the house as well.

When you're confined to a home watching kids 24/7 I think your brain goes a little wonky and things like a spider you killed that day become big issues whereas to someone who was at an office all day is thinking "big f-ing deal I had 25 calls to make today have 3 meetings tomorrow". So they tend to tune out a lot of the rambling on.

Can you blame him for that? Sounds callous, but it's true.

Posted by: Digger on December 15, 2004 11:03 AM

In many churches, baptizing a child or dedicating them in the church is referred to as "presenting themto God" or "giving them to God". It doesn't neccesarily mean, "I think I'll kill my kid".

Maybe John Schlosser had a funny feeling that something was going on. Maybe Dena had been acting strangely. Then again, maybe he didn't automatically take a phrase like the one above to mean that his wife would kill their child.

The point is, WE JUST DON'T KNOW. It's far to easy and hypocritical to make up our own judgements about whether or not Dena should get the death penalty or whether or not John Schlosser should get his kids back. Lets leave that to the courts, shall we? That's what they're there for.

It's not a matter of having sympathy for this woman or her husband, it's having the sense and intelligence enough to realize that your feelings of outrage don't justify condemning someone without even knowing all the facts.

Posted by: Lynette on December 15, 2004 12:02 PM

Thanks Lynette and Laurie. Your comments make sense. The one I didn't understand was the fact that she had no other wounds - how does that lead to the comment that shock set in quickly? I really want to hear some evidence that she went into shock FAST, like even before the 2nd arm was attacked.

I just hope that poor baby Margaret only suffered for seconds or at the most a few minutes before shock or disassociation set in. I know babies feel pain like we do, or worse, but I also hope that because a 10 month old wouldn't be able to process the HORROR of the fact that her arms were being cut off... that perhaps the pain itself was not as horrific as we might imagine. Painful, yes - but not horrific in the same way as it would be for an older child or adult. I just hope. That is what haunts me about this whole story, just the unimaginable horrific way she was murdered. By her own mother. I cry daily, even after 3 weeks.

Posted by: Holly on December 15, 2004 02:46 PM

You are all loving, caring people to be so concerned about what happened to Dena's baby. There must be some way to make something positive come out of this horror. Think of all the other children who suffer from child abuse and neglect. Maybe each of us can do something for just one child or one family who may need a helping hand???

Posted by: Mary on December 15, 2004 03:28 PM

Yes, Mary... I agree. If all of us have been so deeply disturbed by this ONE example of horrid suffering inflicted upon a child - what a difference we could all make just by saving even one child. Granted, this one example is one of the worst... but it is true that children suffer abuse, neglect and yes, even are murdered, every day. It breaks my heart. I plan on starting a support group for mothers of infants and toddlers in my city. To my knowledge, there is not one in existence yet.

Post partum phychosis seems to be so sudden, that I'm not sure if this awful event could have been avoided by such a group - and also the Mom's have to want to take part - given Dena's history of being so submissive to her husband I don't think she would have taken advantage of such a support system. But many people would, and children can only benefit from parents who have a support system. For babies like Margaret whose parents isolate themselves - I pray daily - that God will protect them and at a minimum will not allow them to suffer as I pray daily he didn't allow Margaret to suffer and instead go into shock quickly. That is my hope for Margaret, because I know she is in heaven now.

We can all help though, simply by caring, noticing things that do not look right (ie. a new Mom of a baby perhaps not seeming to care about her child), and being a support system for close friends and family.

Posted by: Holly on December 16, 2004 07:07 AM

Way to go Holly!! You have the right idea. Let's all get out there and do something positive. Surely good can come out of the most evil happenings. We can do it!!

Posted by: Mary on December 16, 2004 07:26 AM

Wonderful idea, Holly! Some things that we can all look for as signs of abuse or neglect:

-Children who have obvious bruises, cuts or burns
-Unexplained or frequent injuries
-Children who are withdrawn or seem scared to talk to anyone, don't have any friends
-children who seem underweight
-kids who look unkempt, dirty, or who aren't dressed appropriately for the weather
-families with domestic violence or drug or alcohol abuse problems.

We can all help!

Posted by: Lynette on December 16, 2004 01:37 PM

please, can someone share with us signs of post partum depression--suggestions about how to approach someone--broach the subject--offer support? thanks.

Posted by: nancy on December 16, 2004 03:39 PM

please, can someone share with us signs of post partum depression--suggestions about how to approach someone--broach the subject--offer support? thanks.

Posted by: nancy on December 16, 2004 03:39 PM

I wanted to clarify what I meant by the assault causing the baby to go into shock...It wouldn't take much for the brain to say "Wait a minute, I can't handle this." and just cause the baby to pass out or otherwise "tune out." That's basically what shock is, too, the body's way of handling trauma. Shock sets in when the physical self can't handle what's going on. As a way to deal, the body sort of slows itself down and "separates" from the brain, for lack of a better word. This allows the body to sustain the trauma with the minimum of damage to the brain and body. It sort of slows all processes down as a way to slow down the damage.
It's like when someone falls through ice. All the body functions slow down, thereby allowing the person to stay under longer without dying. The heartbeat slows way down and the body can survive longer. This happens because the water is so cold and to survive, the defense mechanisms in our bodies take over. Shock is also a defense mechanism for the body. Disassociation is a defense mechanism for the brain. It's a way to save us from insanity. If we're going through something so traumatic we can't deal with it, the brain disassociates (takes a mental vacation, so to speak) so we don't snap completely. Pretty neat of the body to be able to do all this, actually. I'm betting the baby's body helped her handle this trauma by doing some of this stuff. I really think after a couple seconds, she just "tuned out." And if not, the blood loss would cause unconsciousness very quickly. It helps me to think medically, because otherwise, this is just too horrible to imagine...sort of my brain's way of handling this information.

Posted by: Laurie on December 17, 2004 07:13 AM

I am a mother of a 10 month old son and what everyone's opinions might be regarding Margaret Elizabeth and should we help Dena/John Schlosser, the world has gone down the tubes....it's sick to think people are desperate to kill a 8 month pregnant woman for her fetus....you take a life of the unborn and then you want to raise the newborn, it's sick....I hate what these people think they can do to each other (all the killing and harming the innocent)....put all these sick pups on an island like they did in colonial times...and let the sickos, murderers, duke out on their own and without our tax dollars trying to help these people ....because all the drugs and medication are not going to make these people be normal ever again.....sick or not....there is nothing to really understand because these crazy people will do it again ...so let them do it to themselves or someone worse than them....the little 10 month old baby girl who died at the hands of her mother and the 8 month old fetus will never know what happened.....God please help the unwanted children out there and protect them from the sickos


Posted by: Hunter on December 17, 2004 07:23 AM

Thanks Laurie. Your comments make sense, and although we can never know for sure what Margaret went through, I for one will hold on to the belief that her suffering was brief. I appreciate everyone's inputs, as it helps me to know I am not the only one who was so deeply impacted by this insane, horrible tragedy. Together, we can do our very best to make a difference in the lives of children everywhere, and never just look away.

Posted by: Holly on December 17, 2004 08:40 AM

.I awoke to a phone call from a friend of mine who said open the paper..."SHE KILLED HER BABY", and I said WHAT, who did what??..
I felt sick when I read this story in our local paper the Elgin Courier news, first being a mother myself it sickens me to think any one to hurt a child at all, and to think this child in the care of her mom who she totally depended on did this to her.
Well, it was a wonder why we had this in our local paper, you see her mother and step father lived in the area for many years, and her mother was a friend of mine for years, Connie is a wonderful loving person that would have done any thing and "DID" for her daughter Dena and her granddaughters.
Connie had been suffering with parkinsons in the last few years, it was advancing when her and her husband Mick and son moved to Canada.
Before she moved Connie told me on many occasions that she was very worried about her daughter, she told me that she was involved in a Cult in Texas, and that she was not the same, she even went down there a couple of times to tried to get her out of it, but she said she was so brain washed.
I guess why I felt like I needed to write here is that I wanted to say here is that I pray for Connie and her family.
God Bless all that suffer.

Posted by: A friend of Dena's mom on December 19, 2004 09:14 PM

What a world we live in!!! As a woman who has had two miscarriages and lived through depression, this story does nothing but sicken me. Depression is very hard to live through, but by no means should it ever be used as an excuse for such a horrible act. Some people would have done anything to be in Dena's shoes and be blessed with three beautiful daughters. God give them all strength.

Posted by: Amber on December 20, 2004 06:30 PM

Dena Schlosser and Lisa Montgomery should both be in the same prison cell with each other because they deserve each other. Both Dena Schlosser and Lisa Montgomery are pathetic excuses for a human being and I know a lot of us will agree that we do not want our tax dollars to pay for them to live it up when there are homeless and the poor who really deserve place to sleep and a meal (and I am not saying for them to be in prison.....I am saying we should provide means for helping the homeless and the poor to get a job and support themselves. ) But Dena and Lisa both sane or crazy don't deserve compassion from society that take innocent lives....and I don't want them to get the death penalty because it would be too easy for them....just let them rot for the rest of their natural born life.....

Riley A

Posted by: Riley on December 21, 2004 03:35 AM

We live in a "civilized" society and act accordingly, most of us.
Obviously, we can't just let these people rot somewhere, we must hold them accountable. We must put them in prison where they will have to spend their lives, wondering, maybe, how they could have done something good with themselves. I can think of no better punishment...
Suggesting we throw them to the wolves makes us no better than they are and it certainly doesn't protect us from the likes of them, either.

Posted by: Laurie on December 21, 2004 06:04 AM

If Dena ever comes back to reality through treatment, and out of whatever mental haze she is in - she will automatically receive the WORST punishment she could get - her own mental agony, every single waking moment, over what she did to her baby. The death penalty would be more humane, in my opinion, because she could forever escape this reality. No, the most fitting punishment is to treat her illness, and let her cope with what she did. As a Mother, I think THIS would be worse than any physical torture I can think of. In a normal mental state, nothing could be worse than the knowledge of what she did.

Posted by: Holly on December 21, 2004 10:00 AM

I agree 100%, Holly.

I have never been a fan of the death penalty and that is one of the reasons why. The person, once dead, never has to face the reality of what they did, for one, and the punishment of being in prison with no real quality of life is over, for another. Death is sometimes too easy, and for convicted murderers, definitely the easy way out.
The other problem with the death penalty is what if after the execution, we find out we were wrong and the person was actually innocent? Unless someone confesses or the evidence is absolutely irrefutable, I say go with life in prison.

The only time I would advocate for the death penalty is when the person actually enjoys prison (there are people like that, unbelievably.) and has confessed to the crime or had some substantial physical evidence that was so damning, it could not be ignored.

I was dismayed to find that Scott Peterson was going to get death. He probably is guilty, but he denies it and EVERY piece of evidence is circumstantial...I would hate to find out years after he's executed that we were wrong about his guilt.

In any event, a lot of folks are saying we should put Dena to death. I disagree, because I think, once she wakes up and realizes what she's done, that will be the worst kind of punishment ever.

Posted by: Laurie on December 21, 2004 11:07 AM


Posted by: heidi on December 22, 2004 09:34 PM

The only thing that will be justice is for this woman to die. I'm tired of society trying to excuse this behavior. I really don't even think we need a trial. Let's just take to the chair now. It's more humane than what she did to this child. May God protect and bless those children that suffer.

Posted by: Leigh on January 21, 2005 09:01 PM

My comments are about Doyle Davidson, the self proclaimed prophet that leads the church Dena attended. If you watch him as I have over the past five years on TV, you will become to understand how this guy does indeed try to influence those in his church. I have read "bios" of many of his people where he for example, told one woman that "God told me to tell you not to attend college. Three years later, he told her God told him to tell her it was time for her to go to college" Another, he told to gain weight. He constantly says things relating to "if you are going to walk with me" you have to do as he says. He says everything that comes out of his mouth "is God". If you could hear the outlandish things that come out of his mouth, you would know it's NOT God speaking. He is mean, pompous, arrogant, horrible toward women, egotistical, etc. He does not exemplify the love of Christ. He says showing love is to "correct you". His whole ministry is to bash other believers calling them "wicked, blind, followers of witchcraft and socery". Leading church groups, denominations are not "of God" according to him. He mentions ministers by name when he is unkind. I have never seen or heard anyone quite like him. One thing I do know is that he does not speak for God. He is an evil man. Anyone who would bad mouth their dead wife calling her "demon possessed" until "he cast the devil out of her" so she could go to heaven is a nut case. This is not exageration. I fear for the young people in his church as they are exposed to hatefulness and in some cases, vulgarity. In one sermon, he talked about men and women masturbating each other. He has two teenage granddaughters in the congregation. Can you imagine this? I can't. How anyone can sit and listen to this man is unbelievable.

Posted by: David on January 22, 2005 08:02 AM

I am with Leigh on her comments, Dena Schlosser is an evil woman and doesn't deserve society's compassion, who was there for Margaret Elizabeth in her final hours......post partum is a pathetic excuse...taking the knife to her own child, I hope someone takes a knife to her and let's see how she feels the excruciating pain her baby felt.....screw Dena Schlosser, she doesn't get my pity, better yet, send Dena over to Iraq and bring our soldiers home now......that's what they should do to children killer/rapists and murderers......all criminals



Posted by: Madison on January 24, 2005 03:54 AM

Do you really think any mother in her right mind or any person, for that matter, in their right mind could possibly cut off a baby's arms?? I, for one, would like to know how such a tragedy could occur. Yes, Dena needs to be put away for the rest of her life so there will no fear of this ever happening again. All child murderers should be put away for life. But, I still think Dena was suffering from post-partum psychosis.

Posted by: Mary on January 24, 2005 07:48 PM

This is a sick in the head act and anyone defending this woman is not only sick but should also have their arms, along with their legs, SLICED off. Noone should label this as postpartume depression. THis is disgusting to hear. A harmless child tortured to death. I've read many posts of people living in that area already trying to make plots to find this woman and trap her in a basement, gag her and slowly torture her to death. A death so slow that her lungs would become so soar from screams that they would no longer have the strength to take another breath. May this be the reality of how she will live her last day. Not only would i hope these people capture and slowly amputate her arms and legs, but to do a hysterractomy while she is alive and concious. Slice out her vagina and her ovaires and have her look at them. Hopefully she'll be alive afterwards to endure the same pain that she has brought upon to an innocent infant.

Posted by: sandra on February 9, 2005 01:55 PM


The comments you made about what you would like to see done to this woman make you sound as nuts and as violent as you think she is.

Posted by: Laurie on February 10, 2005 06:22 AM


Posted by: HEIDI on February 14, 2005 01:18 AM


What Dena did to her baby is unforgivable and she deserves the punishment, whatever it may be. All I'm saying is that if we suggest she die a slow death in some horrific way, then we are no better than she and we sound as crazy as she obviously is. Let's face it, no "sane" person would cut off her baby's arms..she had to be a bit wacky. I am NOT defending her, I think she should get prison for the rest of her life. I don't think she should ever know freedom again. I don't agree she should go to some mental hospital until cured and then let out. I believe she needs to pay for the rest of her life. I don't think her arms should be cut off. That belief would make me no better than her. We don't live in an "eye for an eye" society anymore, we use courts and judges. I believe it's as it should be.

Posted by: Laurie on February 15, 2005 06:10 AM

Laurie you are a sensible person. Violence only begets more violence. While Dena needs to be confined for the rest of her life, along with other child murderers, it should be done with the understanding that she will be able to give us insight into what propels women into doing what she did to her baby so that we can look for this insanity in new mothers.

Posted by: Mary on February 15, 2005 08:39 AM

i dont think she should get to die i think she should be locked up in a little room with the photos of her tortured baby taped all over the wall. that should give her what she deserves.

Posted by: HEIDI on February 15, 2005 09:18 AM

That would be great, Mary. Hopefully, once Dena is treated, she'll be able to tell others what the heck happened in the first place, what she was thinking, what others could have done to help avoid this tragedy. Society needs to learn more about this so it can not only be diagnosed quickly, but treated also. When I was in the hospital after giving birth to my daughter, I could have used some early intervention because I had post partum depression. It was a new thing, then, though, so I just went home and did the best I could. I did get help because at my 3 month post partum visit, my Dr recognized my illness and got me into treatment. When I had my son 15 years later, I was offered all kinds of support because of being diagnosed previously. Some hospitals have begun screening for PPD while the mother is still in the hospital and if diagnosed, can stay a bit longer to begin treatment. If more doctors were like mine, well educated in this area, maybe help could be obtained before the woman is too far gone to do anything to help herself. I believe education of health care personnel and families can go a long way toward assisting new mothers with what is a difficult road. Expecting the mother to realize it herself and get help, I think, is useless since most of us don't realize we have it at the time and even if we did, we may try to just get over it or stuff the feelings...afterall, we're supposed to be happy when our little ones are born. We're not supposed to be depressed...many women, I believe, feel ashamed at those horrible feelings. We're supposed to feel the opposite. So, we may not admit it and that, I think, starts the slippery slope and even if we want to get off it, it's too late. I believe education should also focus on the fact that it is okay to feel a bit off kilter after birth so the woman is less apt to hide those feelings until they grow so huge that she ends up hurting herself or her child.

Posted by: Laurie on February 15, 2005 09:24 AM

I agree, Heidi. I think the death penalty is the easy way out, so to speak.
I think living with what she has done for the rest of her life is probably one of the hardest things she'll ever have to do and if she is put to death, she can escape in a way.
She killed her baby and she needs to face that right up front and personal. Hopefully, she will get the treatment she needs to be able to see what she did right in front of her and she can then, like Mary said, educate others about where things went so horribly wrong and what others can do to avoid doing the horrific thing she did.

Posted by: Laurie on February 15, 2005 09:29 AM

howard r. lee posted on dec.7...we should have compassion for poor dena .....compassion my ass whats wrong with you people why would anyone with a heart feel sorry for that b***h how would you feel if it happened to you. and another thing that gets me some of yall blame the father, now come on,what did he do to make it his fault no you cant blame him dena did it on her own its no ones fault but hers and she will get hers one day and i hope its torture!

Posted by: HEIDI on February 15, 2005 09:43 AM

I do not think THIS father should be completely let off the hook. I realize that nobody could predict a mother would do something this terrible. But on the other hand, there is documented stories that John Schlosser didn't want Dena treated with meds for a mental illness, that he preferred they just cure her through prayer. Because of this fact, he has to share some blame, because he was not doing his best to seek help for her.

Extremist Christians are building themselves a bad name through beliefs like this, especially that mental illness doesn't exist. I am a Christian, but I still believe that mental illness exists and treatment is necessary. These extremist positions are nothing but dangerous for the children they are imposed upon.

Would things have been different if John Schlosser had allowed treatment for Dena? We will never know.

A recent article (search google) also documents that he hit Dena with a wooden spoon the night before the killing. One of his older daughters told that story. It was right after they had talked to their pastor (who supposedly barely knew them???). He also got custody of his other two kids, which is a little scary, since he is not helping them much to cope with their emotions in the wake of this tragedy, according to articles at least. I hope and pray he will be able to somehow help his surviving daughters get through this, and not just brush it off and insist that they "move on" as he has done so far.

There is also a picture of baby Maggie in one of the articles. It just makes my heart ACHE looking at that precious angel. I still pray often that she detached and didn't feel the pain in the way we imagine she could have - almost right away.

Posted by: Holly on February 15, 2005 10:16 AM

When I first heard about this, I was sick to my stomach. I remember wondering WHY?!? What was this woman thinking? How could she do that? I don't, though, ever recall wanting vengeance. I was angry about it and I just wanted to know WHY.

I'm the type who frees a bug in my house instead of killing it. I cannot bear to see anyone in pain or being mistreated. Sometimes, I get sick just reading the newspaper what with all the horrible things people do to each other.

What Dena did was absolutely horrendous. I really can't think too deeply about it, because I get visions of that baby's last moments and I just can't bear it.

I don't see any point in my having all these vile wishes about what I think should be done to Dena...torture and that sort of thing, because then I'm the one, not Dena, who suffers because then I fill up with all these hurtful ideas, visions, negative feelings that just can't be healthy for me in the long run. It's not like I can/would actually act on them, so they're just stuck there, creating a poison in my body. I don't think it's at all healthy to think violently. I think it hurts the physical self. While there is something to be said for anger release and I do think that although it sounds absolutely nuts, maybe venting all the horrid things we should do to Dena helps some people with their anger, I just, for myself, believe there is a more constructive way to deal with the feelings this act has caused.

Posted by: Laurie on February 15, 2005 10:19 AM

I agree Laurie, thoughts of vengeance only fills us up with poison and impacts our lives and that of our loved ones.

What I seek (STILL) is some sort of peace that Maggie checked out quickly, that her pain and suffering were not as great as our minds can imagine it might have been. I wish I knew somebody who had a limb severed and could comment on whether it was excruciating, or perhaps not so much because of the bodies defense mechanisms.

My Mom is a nurse and says it would have taken Maggie an hour or so to bleed out and die. But dear Jesus, please please please let her have checked out LONG before then! I search the news for maybe some word that she had a head injury or something like that to indicate that perhaps she had been knocked out first. But nothing like that has ever been published.

If Dena did it to her fully consious, then surely she would have struggled! When my now 18 mo. old son was 10 months old, I had to work hard to hold him down for diaper changes when he preferred to be crawling around. So I can only imagine that Maggie would have put up quite a fight! Would that have made it worse? I wonder that too. And HOW on earth did Dena manage to completely sever the arms - did she have to dig around to find that place in between the bones at the shoulder? This is where my mind goes to torture me. This is what tears me up. I seek no vengeance, because it is too late for Maggie. What I need for healing is to know somehow that it wasn't as bad for Maggie as my mind imagines.

As far as what we can do now - what we can do is reach out if we know somebody who just had a baby and appears to be struggling. We can volunteer for PPD support groups. We can reach out to children who look like they might be mistreated or whose parents are withholding medical treatment. We can just do whatever we can do given what we see, and never look away.

If Dena ever re-joins the sane world, that will be all the punishment she ever needs. Once she realizes what she did, her own mind will be a lifelong torture chamber.

Posted by: Holly on February 15, 2005 11:32 AM

I agree, Holly.

I think Dena will get all the punishment she deserves once she wakes up and realizes the enormity of what she has done.

I wish I could say that baby didn't suffer. I just don't know. I have a baby son and I often think of him when I hear of these things happening, and I can only begin to think of the horror before my own mind says "this is waaaay too much information for you to absorb" then my mind goes to some safer place. This is what I hope happened to Maggie, that the trauma of that event just caused her mind to drift to a safer place where she wasn't connected to what was occurring. I have often begun to imagine what was happening to her, but all I can imagine is her tremendous screaming and fighting. It just makes me too sick to think of and all I can hope is it was too much for her little self so her brain protected her by shutting down or drifting off.
I have had many clients of mine say that while they were being abused they would "drift" away, sort of dream until it was over. Research knows the brain can do this and I feel strongly that this is what happened with Maggie.

I'm glad when I went through PPD, I had plenty of support from my family, friends, and my doctor. It doesn't seem to be the case with Dena. That doesn't excuse her, but it does present a mitigating factor as to why this may have happened and we can learn a valuable lesson here. If something looks wrong, question it. If someone seems to need help, do something, anything, before it's too late.

Posted by: Laurie on February 15, 2005 11:54 AM

There is a part of the brain that makes us different from animal. This part of the brain has the ability to reason. Those people that murder others for whatever reason obviously that part of there brain doesnt function...therefore they should be considered animals, in which case when an animal is considered dangerous that animal is put to sleep. I think anyone that has physically harmed anyone should automatically be put to sleep. As for playing God for those who do not beleive in the death penalty. Its a physical body being destroyed...its up to God what he wants to do with the soul...and thats heaven or hell. I hope this woman rotts in hell with the same physical feeling her daughter had at the last moments of her life . That poor baby girl...may God rest her soul!

Posted by: rebecca on February 25, 2005 01:09 PM

I just discovered an article on postpartum psychosis. It says, "Postpartum psychosis is very rare. It is not so much a variety of postpartum depression as it is an entity unto itself. It is characterized by homicidal and suicidal impulses, hallucinations, delusions, disorganized and bizarre thinking." There is more but you should read this yourselves at peaceandhealing.com/psychosis/postpartum.asp

Posted by: Mary on February 26, 2005 08:24 AM

I am a mother of two and did experience postpartum depression with both of my children. But NOT ONCE did I ever think about hurting either of my babies. I look at both of my children and know what a gift God has given me! This story broke my heart the day it happend and my heart is still breaking not just for Maggie but for her sisters who will live with their family history for the rest of their lives!!

Posted by: Carla on March 3, 2005 06:23 AM

I think that woman who cut her baby's arms off should get the death penalty, she should feel the pain her daughter felt in her last moments on this earth. I cant imagine what that helpless baby had to go through, the pain and hurt she must have felt that woman is a monster, she's evil. I have sympathy for the baby that died, may she rest in peace.

Posted by: Amy on May 24, 2005 08:38 PM

This is a followup to "Spider" in Daytona, FL. I have watched Doyle Davidson on TV for several years and that's all you have to do to know that this man is not a man of God. He is mean, arrogant, pompous and the most nasty person I have ever witnessed who claims to be a minister.

After his arrest at the home of one of his "fired" apostles, he spent days on his telecast berating the Plano, TX police and city government. He also spent hours bad mouthing this couple who had been part of his staff for seventeen years. This ministry publically castigated this couple's son. Now, who would ever do this type stuff if you were truly a Christian and possess the "fruits of the Spirit"?

I'm not making this stuff up. This man says every word that comes out of his mouth "is God talking". It would take pages to talk about the outrageous things that comes out of his mouth. He even bad mouths his dead wife who he says was demon possessed and he cast the devil out of her so she could go to heaven. He does this in front of his daughter and her three daughters. Some Grandfather, huh!

He is extremely harsh toward women and I can't believe any woman would sit there and listen to this guy. He castigates his own people telling them they "don't believe God", "wicked", and that "if they want to see God, they will have to follow him and do what he says.

Back to the fired apostle. He has been telling the congregation that "God gave him his second wife in 1987" because his wife, Patty, had an evil spirit. This "new wife" continued to live with her husband who "deceived her". He says Lisa is her name and that is the name of the apostle's wife. He was chastised by a viewer about taking another man's wife and Doyle's response was "God gave her to me". Now let's examine this. God instituted marriage but he is going to give another man's wife to another. How preposterous. By the way, Doyle's first wife died about two years ago and "Lisa refuses to live with him". Try understanding all this.

I could go on and on but people should understand he does try to control people. I am not saying he told Dena to kill her baby but this group is way out of the mainstream when it comes to teaching scripture. You don't have to listen to him but once and you get the picture. He is not a very nice person.

Posted by: David Maddux on May 25, 2005 06:27 AM

I too have witnessed this man, its absolutely rediculous!! I grew up in a southern Babtist church. My brother was a non-denominational pastor for years. This man does not teach the word of God! Im not making excuses for Mrs. Schlosser, but I can see how easy it would be to take someone with a mental condition and turn her into a psycho! If the devil is after anyone here it would be our children. From cover to cover the bible gives us everything we need to know about being a wife and a mother. We certainly dont need another monster distorting the truth. I feel that this woman has been a victim of her church and her pastor. But lets not forget who the real vicims are here. Lets focus on these little girls. Little Maggie is with God, its truely a tradgedy that she didnt get to grow up and live life. Its an even bigger tradgedy that the one person she loved and trusted the most tortured her and took her life. There are two more little girls that have had a heinous trama in their lives. Maggie got to go back home, her sisters dont have that luxury. Is daddy supporting mommy? Why? If daddy is standing behind mommy in this can he really be trusted? If our chidren cant trust us who can they trust. If they have to fear the people that they SHOULD be able to count on what kind of shape are they really in? My heart is broken for these kids. Its just not right.

Posted by: Carla on May 25, 2005 07:07 AM

There is a big difference between postpartum depression and postpartum psychosis. If Dena's husband stands by his wife, it's because he knows that she is a sick, sick woman. She will have to live with the knowledge of what she has done for the rest of her life. If this "man of God" was an influence on her, it's no wonder something like this happened. He sounds sicker than she is.

Posted by: Mary on May 25, 2005 06:42 PM

sorry to burst your bubble, einstein, but you are ultimately influenced by many many things in this world/reality/existence. what you do is the result of various decisions you make. you have no one to blame but yourself. the media is a contant drone full of constiuents who say "this happened to me or i did this because someone did this to me" etc etc etc...

Posted by: james on May 25, 2005 07:48 PM

Looks like Mr. Schlosser has filed for divorce and has asked that his wifes parental rights be revoked. GOOD FOR HIM!! I still cant help but feel like he is partly responsible. He knew she was ill and still trusted her to care for the girls even though she has proven several times that she could not be trusted! Shes been found competent to stand trial. Its about time!!! I hope she fries! I know alot of you out there are opposed to the death penalty. But why is it that if someone else kills a child they die and if a mother kills her own child shes put a mental facility to be taken care of for the rest of her life? No, no more! I think she should die!

Posted by: Carla on May 26, 2005 09:05 AM

because, carla, if everyone responds the same, as you suggest, there will be no one left around. your responses remind me of marilyn manson who has said (and these are simply ideas and rhetoric, which we all throw around and never follow through, because not too many have the intestinal fortitude) only the strong should survive, survival of the fittest, let there be no laws, whoever outlasts the other finally wins. and then lives alone. you seriously need to rethink your vengeful need for justice, because someday you may need mercy and might get,,, justice.

Posted by: james on May 26, 2005 03:22 PM

I would never agree with executing a mentally ill person. I think if a mother kills her child and she's not insane, then perhaps the death penalty fits, but that would depend on how much evidence there was, meaning I would have to be certain (DNA, confession) the person was guilty. I also believe prison is worse than death, so why give anyone an easy out? I prefer a person live with what they did forever. In any event, someone who is mentally ill should not be executed in my opinion as they couldn't appreciate the gravity of their actions and wouldn't have done it if sane.

Posted by: Laurie on May 27, 2005 06:34 AM

James, I am in no way shape or form similar to Marilyn Manson and the fact that you are familiar with the lyrics where I am not just shows to me that you are too easy to compare someones opinion with someone who is truely warped. In most cases I am opposed to the death penalty. Vicious acts against a child is not only inexcusable but malitious! Maggie didnt deserve to die, Maggie did NOTHING wrong and now shes dead. But we should incarcerate and take care of the woman who did it? What a punishment. A warm bed, food to eat, TV to watch, clothing provided and its all free and clear. All she had to do was kill her kid. What if it would have been someone like you who broke into her apartment and murdered that baby? Would you be sitting on death row or would you be in a mental facility growing old? What is just here? Justice is not the same in every case. How would justice be best served in this case? James, I never said my opinion was right, thats the beauty of opinion. But I am entitled to mine, that doesnt make me sadistic. Thanks for the response.

Posted by: Carla on May 27, 2005 07:09 AM

no one said you were similar to marilyn manson and no one quoted his "lyrics". what i did was quote what marilyn manson has said in an interview, and he said he was an anarchist. anarchy. this means survival of the fittest. let the strong finish off the weak. i assure you, you dont want justice. you are not qualified to dish it out. i am sure you people think you have a sense of justice or something, but what you really want is mercy. you have no conception of what it really is. this is the chasm of futility in which most of the united states lives: they think abortion should be abolished and the death penalty should be carried out. humans are humans, regardless of their age. they live and they die. we deify younger ones because they are innocent and we slay the ones who are mature and their blood is on our hands. you just go right ahead and honk your horn. but i would like to see what your dreams and your sleep patterns are like if you ever flipped the switch on a convicted murderer or decided who would live or die in any situation. you would initially say you would have no qualms if you were sure they were guilty, but i am willing to bet it would haunt you. what gives you the right to decide who lives and who dies,regardless what they have done?

Posted by: james on May 27, 2005 03:47 PM

James, Again, thank you for the response. And please know that although we are in a debate here I honestly mean no disrespect so please dont take any of my comments personally. Now, with that said, we are already in anarchy. The weak(children) die while the strong(child molesters and rapists) get a slap on the wrist, 4 months in jail and the perfect opportunity to do it again. Ever hear of Zachary Snider? If not, please look him up. I personally searched for that kid for over a week. I saw what was done to him. Im not qualified to make a life or death decision. Yes, I am. Me and every other mother who fears for her child. Me and every other father and grandfather and grandmother who fears for these children. Are we supposed hold on to them so tight that childhood is no longer fun? Or do we let go to be kids and hope for the best? God gave us a responsibility to kids. And yes, you are right, I dont believe in terminating an infant and I dont believe in supporting sex offenders. And I do believe in children. How do you feel in the Jessica Lundsford case where a child's killer is not her mother, rather a convicted sex offender. Both of these cases are heinous and both are quite disturbing. Let me ask you this? Do you have children? If so, have you ever put yourself in their shoes? Who is really responsible for them? I honestly believe that taking a human life even when its a decision of justice would be very hard, and I also believe that it may haunt me. That doesnt mean it wasnt the right thing to do. I never said I had the right to decide who lives and dies, I said I had the right to my opinion on the matter. And that is something that no one can take away from me.

Posted by: Carla on May 31, 2005 07:11 AM

Apparently, Dena has been found competent to stand trial.

I don't know anything else, like when she will go on trial or what, but it is moving ahead finally.

I imagine there will be an insanity defense.

Posted by: Laurie on June 3, 2005 06:06 AM

you cant offend me. and i will sincerely look up the cases you are describing. i geuss you have to remember that no one gets out of here alive. at least not in this present existence. i see and hear extremes on about every side. i see my own inadequacies, and others' more! nothing is black and white it seems. continue to have your opinion. i certainly wont take it from you.here is an example: i have no idea what it would be like to be a cancer patient who has been given 6 months to live. many people like that suck on marijuana pipes to relieve pain etc, from this. but, marijuana is illegal and is punishable in some states with long prison terms ( and in the past in this country life imprisonment) we have a long long way to go as far as establishing any kind of justice in the USA. but we certainly can have someone like toby keith sell lots of records in the name of patriotism. and, one man said, patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings. i am not picking on toby keith, just saying that you can teach a monkey to wave a flag. but has it changed the inner workings of a person.? this baby who was killed. she is gone. that is it. she no longer exists and is probably better off, rather than to be born into a set of parents who do not really love her. such was a certain kind of judgement imposed. how do you view the people around you whom you deem to have faults and flailings (look it up ,flail) that are more frequent than yours.? when will you need mercy? and from whom will it come? i am not trying to one up you or any one else here. i am simply saying that we really wantjustice but are probably afraid of what that will entail, and refuse to be responsible for what comes from it. be well,,,

Posted by: james on June 3, 2005 06:57 AM

Laurie, Yes, she has been declared competent to stand trial. The news says sometime toward the end of this year. It cant be soon enough. This needs to be over. Im sure that the defense will enter in a plea of insanity. Its really sad to think that she may get away with this. What kind of message do you think we are sending to mothers who reach the end of their rope with their children? God keep Maggie close to Him.

Posted by: Carla on June 3, 2005 06:58 AM

James, You are absolutely right, nothing is black and white!! A majority of our current laws were set way back before the times changed. Alot of cancer patients do use marijuana for treatment and because science has proven that it can be beneficial in those cases it has now been declared legel for those uses. Times are changing and laws are changing with them just not quickly enough. Through trying to make things easier it seems that we have only made them more complicated. But is it really fair to compare a pot smoker and someone using patriotism to sell records to someone who vicously takes the life of a child? I know that nothing is black and white but surely you see the difference in these situations. Yes, someday I will long for mercy. When? When I meet my maker and He will decide for me. I have mercy for the weak. I just dont buy into this whole post pardom depression and phychosis. I do know that it is very real. I had it! With both of my children. I had to be hospitalized after my son who is now a year old. For 10 days I was separated from my children while I was in ICU. I was severely depressed. Ive never felt so bad in my whole life. With that said, please know that the thought of hurting either one of my children NEVER crossed my mind. This woman had something more going on in her head. Does the fact that she is nuts excused her for what shes done? I love my babies, more than anything else in this world. And although I am many things to many people and am responsible for so much, my most important job in this world is my children. When I reach heaven and stand before God in judgement I want Him to be able to tell me "good job, you've done well". I think you are right, Maggie is much better off where she is. The road to heaven could have been paved a little sweeter for her. You have to give your children back to God. When he wants them he takes them.

Posted by: Carla on June 3, 2005 07:14 AM

well i certainly agree with all that. sounds like you have been through enough things to come to some conclusions.i dont think that any one ever escapes some type of correction. it eventually comes. be well.

Posted by: james on June 3, 2005 03:26 PM

.I awoke to a phone call from a friend of mine who said open the paper..."SHE KILLED HER BABY", and I said WHAT, who did what??..
I felt sick when I read this story in our local paper the Elgin Courier news, first being a mother myself it sickens me to think any one to hurt a child at all, and to think this child in the care of her mom who she totally depended on did this to her.
Well, it was a wonder why we had this in our local paper, you see her mother and step father lived in the area for many years, and her mother was a friend of mine for years, Connie is a wonderful loving person that would have done any thing and "DID" for her daughter Dena and her granddaughters.
Connie had been suffering with parkinsons in the last few years, it was advancing when her and her husband Mick and son moved to Canada.
Before she moved Connie told me on many occasions that she was very worried about her daughter, she told me that she was involved in a Cult in Texas, and that she was not the same, she even went down there a couple of times to tried to get her out of it, but she said she was so brain washed.
I guess why I felt like I needed to write here is that I wanted to say here is that I pray for Connie and her family.
God Bless all that suffer.

Posted by: friend of Dena's mother on June 7, 2005 08:27 PM

i have attended this "cult" church which is very small in downtown plano in an old church of christ church building, several times a day the pastor /apostle/prophet/teacher doyledavidson reads from the bible and doesnt stray from that content other than to tell about his personal life in relation to god the father and the son jesus christ. the jesus who has beeen raised from the dead and who sits at his right hand praying for all people till his enemies become his footstool. all that is talked about in there is the bible. just the bible. it will bang you on the head sometimes if you need it , but it will not cut the arms off little children. this is ridiculous to blame anyone using a bible. the person who listend to the bible had some serious issues that were not dealt with by anyone with a bible,, they happend because people are not basically good but very wicked ( as god sees it) and they have no excuse. stop blaming and finding excuses , you may never kno why...its not yours to know.

Posted by: james on June 8, 2005 10:01 AM

I think alot of things can be taken out of context! Especially the Bible. Judging by several different reports and incidents coming from that church it does appear to have cult like activity. That may not be the truth, but it sure does seem that way. And for someone with a mental illness it would be very easy to confuse them. I totally believe that a church can be partly at fault for a tragedy. Im not a hater of Christian people. I love the Lord myself and believe in His word. The ones to be pitied here is the surviving children and their family.

Posted by: Carla on June 8, 2005 10:48 AM

I think this is such a terrible tragedy. I am so angry with this woman! I have twin boys who are 13 1/2 months old, and they cry out loud when they are simply hungry or sleepy. I cannot even imagine this poor child's cry or pain and suffering she went through as she lay dying. It is so sad. I know this woman probably has problems that go beyond just the average mother who is stressed out and going through a tough time. However, I think all of us should use this story to remember our mothers with new babies. Become a friend to a mother at your church or in your neighborhood. Bring her a meal when her baby comes home from the hospital. Sit and talk with her... call her on the phone once a week. I think too many mothers today get isolated. I am lucky enough to be part of a multiples club, so we get out. Yet, I know there are stay at home moms out there who never leave their homes, and they may feel trapped. I wonder if this woman who cut off her child's arms had a close friend? Would this have happened if she did? I just believe there is some way we could prevent something like this from happening again. It might sound trivial, but becoming a friend to a mom with young children may be more meaningful than you will ever know.

Posted by: Jennifer on July 15, 2005 09:10 PM

I'm with Jennifer & Holly. If you know somebody suffering with this illness, take time to offer help. That way other children can be spared this fate.

Dena Schlosser has committed an evil act & that is the plain truth. There is never justification for violence. However, I don't believe that some people have the ability to comprehend their actions. Yes, plenty of women have had a mild form of PPD. They had the "baby blues". Some of you here have said that you've had it. However, in its most severe form, it can cause complete dissociation with reality. No person in their right mind does certain things. Obviously there is some serious underlying problem, whether it be mental illness, hormonal imbalance, or otherwise.

I believe Dena Schlosser is indeed very sick (ill), and proper intervention could have benefited her in some way before it was too late & she did the unthinkable. And to those of you saying she should have her arms chopped off, her privates mutilated, etc...I realize that this is a highly emotional subject to respond to, but you also have to understand that punishing another human being with death or violence only continues the cycle of cruelty. It doesn't accomplish anything & it certainly won't bring Margaret Elizabeth back. Since some of you are saying an eye for an eye, I say this...let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

It was evil, senseless, & horrifying...but we all handle situations differently. While there is NO JUSTIFICATION for abusing, mutilating, or murdering a child, you must understand that this woman's psychological/emotional state was clearly very warped. I know that my mother suffered with PPD for a few years and although she has always been very loving, I'm sure she had thoughts (however fleeting) of harming me as a child. Maybe you guys realized that you needed to snap out of it for your own health & the sake of your children, so you decided to seek help. Or maybe somebody else noticed that you weren't coping very well with motherhood & decided to help you. In the case of women with PPP (postpartum psychosis), the most severe type, it is too late. They have been left untreated, their problem remains unnoticed, and they have moved onto the phase of acting upon their thoughts. This is true in the case of both Schlosser & Andrea Yates. Some people just do not realize that they need treatment & help dealing with their problems and then they do something totally heinous.

Posted by: Mindy on August 31, 2005 03:43 PM

Ya know, Im just at a loss for words. I read the last comment left on this site and I agree with part but most of it no, I just dont agree with. It hit the news this morning that Dena will not be considered for the death penalty. She spent VERY LITTLE time in a mental facility after she was declared incompetent before she was sent back to the jail and declare competent. How does a person go from insane to sane that quickly? Or are people just insane for trial purposes? What if that had been a father? What if her father would have murdered her in such a gresome way? He would die! He would be tried, convicted and be sitting on death row by now? What message are we putting out there? I'll tell you. We are basically telling the whole county that if you just cant take your children just kill them, we can blame it on post partum depression, claim you were insane and you get to sit in a lovely padded room watching days of our lives and eating bon bons for a few years and then we'll let you go and you can try it again. In the meantime, WHO IS GOING TO PROTECT THESE CHILDREN!!! God has to be sick at his stomach! These beautiful innocent little babies are being murdered by the people that they love the most and all we can say is "well, shes sick and needs help" How did we turn this monster into the victim? How could we do this? You never heard of women doing this 50- 60 years ago, is that because there was no such thing as PPD or is it because women and families found a way to deal with this accordingly? Or is it because society has approved this behavior? OH MY GOD! Its like its just acceptable!! What is wrong with us? Im asking every woman to stand up and say NO! Its not acceptable, Ive been extremely angry with my children but couldnt hurt them because Im not a monster, Im a mother. A word that is sacred, not scarry. Im sorry, I just dont buy that poor little pitful Dena is a victim! Thank you for letting me vent.

Posted by: Carla on September 2, 2005 07:18 AM

I am a mother of 3 and my oldest(10)at the time this happen was sexually assualted by my ex-husband(husband at the time)and she told the school and cps came and got her and her brother, and called me to there office. Well to make a long story short, cps took my son(9)now and youngest daughter (7)now and put them in foster care and let my oldest one go to her dads, and said I didn't protect my kids, because I let one of them get hurt, and I didn't know anything about it till they told me. Well, when I went to visit my kids on a visit they told me they had 2 new girls in their foster home, and their mom cut off there baby sisters arms, and now there mom is in prison. What kind of thing do they let go on in foster homes, my little ones were so scared that they beged me to take them home, cause they thought the othere girls mom was going to get out and come cut the girls arms off too, and they(my 2 kids ) wanted to be home with me so nothing would happen to them like that.
well It has now been almost 2 years and my little ones are still in foster care and CPS told me they would take me to court and terminate my rights or I could relinquish my rights and I could still visit and write to them, well, I had to get a court appointed attorny and well, I'm a dump ass, and let him tell me that I sould relinquish my rights, so I did, and now I have lost my 2 little ones, and don't know what to do. I see them every 4 months, and they always ask me "mom, are we going to ever get to come home" I tell them what has happened and they tell me, but MOM your the best mom in the world, you didn't do anything, dad did, and he's in Prison for 75 years. Why are they punishing you? I say "GOOD QUESTION" My oldest and I go see them every time its visiting time and we write to them always. Pleas pray for us, and if anyone has any ideas on how I can get them back, PLEASE e-mail me back.
Jen- help me to get 2 of my angels back with there sister and I.

Posted by: Jen on September 7, 2005 05:17 PM

The truth is, we are all entitled to our opinion. But what the hell do we really know? The more hate and negativity we put out there,the more it grows and manifests. Instead of playing god and deciding who should die- before we start another witch hunt...stop spreading all that hatred (i just read so much of it and felt ill) and pray- to whoever or whatever you believe in...for a better, non-violent, happy, healthier time- pray for love and healing. No matter how disgusting and heinous a crime is - it can't be undone, and all the hatred put out there will just keep the world from evolving. Lose the mob mentality. Research what psychosis really is. Get over ourselves and pray for love. Because this world sure as hell needs it when things like this happen.

Posted by: Dena on October 6, 2005 03:50 PM

You know, there really is so much to say , I've read all of your posts. I'll indulge in posting later, I'm at work right now.........

But I would like to find out if there are any updates...?
Is she going to stand trial, and if so, do we know when.....??
Are there any other websites I can go to to further understand about these "voices" that people say they hear.......??I'm being serious, this topic has come up time and time again,........it's truly creepy, and I'd really like to learn more about this......
The couple that beheaded their 3 children (utterly sickening and dispicable) did also claim to "hear voices".

BTW, do you remember the movie "Fatal Attraction" with Glenn Close and Michael Douglas...??
Doesn't this ladies photo look like Glenn when she "wigged" out in the movie..........!!??

Posted by: Joe on November 13, 2005 09:06 PM

Dena is set to stand trial in February of next year unless it is postponed. The will claim the insanity defense and it looks as though the state will not seek the death penalty. I guess all of those people who felt so badly for her win, Margaret losses. PPD is very bad. I had it with both of my children. I never heard voices and I never wanted to hurt my children. Those of you out there who have encouraged prayer I ask this.....because you believe in God do you also believe in Satan? Because you cant have one without the other. DO you believe in spiritual warfare? Read you bible........it does exist. You can sit back and pray if thats what helps you sleep at night but I choose to pray and fight! When these women who murder their children get away with this it is setting an example for all the other demons in this world. Put these women to death, if we did that would the next one change her mind before another beautiful child of God is tortured? Andrea Yates is being reconsidered for the death penalty and she is no different than Dena Schlosser.

Posted by: Carla on November 18, 2005 04:47 PM

You are so right. It does seem as if a double-standard exists for Men and Women. If a Man committed this horrific crime, do you think for a second that he would not be sentanced to death...!!?? And yet, for whatever the reason, PPD, , etc., Women who commit the same crimes do not usually get sentanced to death.
There are demons at work in this world.
I am amazed at how many "believers" when you mention witchcraft to them, they don't believe it, or they think that it existed "long ago"......
My friends,...........it's all around us.........
Dearest Carla says it best...!! "DO you believe in spiritual warfare? Read you bible........it does exist. You can sit back and pray if thats what helps you sleep at night but I choose to pray and fight! When these women who murder their children get away with this it is setting an example for all the other demons in this world. Put these women to death, if we did that would the next one change her mind before another beautiful child of God is tortured?"

Posted by: joe on November 27, 2005 03:05 AM

We need to put on the whole armor of God everyday! We are not at war with flesh but the evil forces. Eph 6:10-14

Posted by: joy on February 24, 2006 03:47 PM

Since hearing about this story on the radio a few weeks back, I am unable to dismiss it from my mind. I have a 2 year old. I am 45 years old. I have raised 4 other children who are 22 plus years old. I am unable to clear my mind of a horrific picture: a mother, using some instrument of destruction, taking the arm of her helpless, trusting, beautiful child, whose eyes look into hers with trepidation, with disbelief, with a silent scream for mercy, as the instrument wreaks its destruction. Then, with the screaming pain of realization that the one in whom you have the utmost faith has caused you unfathonable pain, is now reaching, grabbing, forcing your other arm underneath the same instrument of destruction to vent the same pain....how can anyone possibly destroy in this manner? I'm sure the day will come when the memory of this small child's fate will fade, sadly that's the purpose of the passage of time, but for now, what is happening to this world? "...the shedding of innocent blood...". How long will God only watch...........

Posted by: John on March 2, 2006 10:27 PM

my gd. what kind of sick freak would do that? not ven a ear old. i dont care if she was dinosed w/ deprssion or not...no baby deserves to be put through that!!. what sickens and disturbs me is thinking of the POOR baby crying!! i would of killed that lady!! she is SICK!!!!

Posted by: Talyr on May 30, 2007 12:57 AM

Wow I can't believe this women. I don't understand why they use postpartum depression as an excuse. It's not.
I was married and my ex-husband had a disabled son. He was born a normal healthy baby. His so called mother suffacted him when he was between 16-18 hours old. They brought him back to life apx. 3 1/2 min later. He was then dignosed with Cerabral Palsy. @ weeks shy of him being 1 She broke both legs and his arm. CPS then came into the picture and took The baby. My ex-husband was gone at the time this all happened. (Navy)He was flown home and the baby was put into the system. My ex did everything he could to get the baby back. And he did. They did nothing to the mother and now she has custdy of now $ year old every 1st, 3rd, and 5th weekend every month.
I think that something needs to be done about our system.

Posted by: Dena Morris on January 22, 2008 12:38 PM

"I think they should kill the bitch. But first lets cut off her arms." -Sue

I hope you suffer from psychosis sometime in the future, sue!

Posted by: Chris mankey on February 22, 2008 02:07 PM

you think its bad. this twit tells a judge she is sane enough to be released. now argue that one with the state. tx is f&&&ed in the head

Posted by: jcp on June 13, 2008 01:37 PM

They are releasing this woman. Isn't Texas great? She's mentally competent to be released but not to be held on murdering her child. I don't care if she is crazy or not, she should not be out of some type of lock down.

Posted by: patricia on November 9, 2008 06:02 AM

its storys like this that just break my heart im 19 years old n i have a 2 year old daughter n she is my world i just cant imagine what is going through those sick ladys minds when they do this to there children. these are lil angels that there killing there own flesh and blood they are the reason we are put on this earth. i can literally break down and cry of happiness that my dauhter brings me. yes maybe there is such thing of postpartem depression but wtf cry here and there not murder your child...

Posted by: brittany on June 12, 2010 11:51 AM

"Everyone is a potential murderer"-Clarence Darrow
And a potential saint.

Posted by: Tempe on February 11, 2011 12:54 PM

I was locked up with her for 6mnths its fucked up she smiles and acts so happy she doesnt seem to have any remorse for what she done fuck her that bitch should die slowly she goes up for parole this year or next they better not give her parole

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