/ December 19, 2005 08:03 AM
Is the passing of H.R. 4437, The Border Protection, Antiterrorism, and Illegal Immigration Control Act of 2005, a victory or a defeat for immigration reform proponents? It really depends on who you ask. While it is a victory in the way it has galvanized support in the House, there is no way that a majority of the amendments are going to make it through the Senate when the two meet in a Conference Committee. The Senate, who seems to really be the enemy of all those who want true immigration reform -- and therefore most Americans, intends to include a guest worker amnesty no matter what in their bill. They'll be putting theirs together in February.
Items not included in the House bill that passed include chain migration, birthright citizenship and identification fraud.
The items that did pass and were a victory in the bill include:
- 700 miles of border fence in high drug smuggling and illegal alien crossing areas and in areas where illegal alien deaths are at their highest.
- Mandate that Federal government cooperate with local officials in picking up detained illegal aliens. This ends catch and release and allows local law enforcement to detain illegal aliens rather than calling federal officials who tell them just to release them.
- Mandatory worker legal verification through electronic means for all employers phased in over several years. Also reports to be sent to Congress one and two years after implementation to ensure that it is being used.
- Elimination of the visa lottery, which basically draws 50,000 people out of a hat each year and gives them the right to citizenship without regard to criminal or terrorist potential.
- Prohibits grants to a federal, state, or local government agency that enact or have a sanctuary policy
There were some minor victories as well including:
- incorporate Satellite communications between immigration enforcement officials.
- All Border Patrol uniforms must be made in the US to avoid forgeries.
- A timeline for deployment of US-VISIT to all land based checkpoints.
- Requires DHS (Department of Homeland Security) to report to Congress on the number of OTM's (Other Than Mexican) apprehended and deported and the number of those from states that sponsor terror.
- Congress condemns rapes by smugglers along the border and urges Mexico to take immediate action to prevent them
- Requires DHS to conduct a study on the potential for border fencing on the Canadian border.
- Sets minimum sentence for fraudulent documents at 10 years, fines or both with tougher sentencing in cases aiding drug trafficking and terrorism.
- Establishment of a Fraudulent Documents Center within DHS
- Increased penalties for various marriage fraud, aggravated felonies and document fraud.
- Sets a deadline of 18 months on DHS to control the border with a 1 year progress report due 1 year after enactment of bill
- Requires criminal record, terrorist watch list clearance and fraudulent document check for any alien before being granted legal immigration status.
- Reimbursement to states aiding in immigration enforcement
- Allows deportation of any illegal alien convicted of a DUI (Driving Under the Influence).
- Human trafficking and human smuggling added to money laundering statute.
- Increases penalties for employing illegal aliens to $7,500 for first time offenses, $15,000 for second offenses and $40,000 for all subsequent offenses.
Those are some significant victories and show that the House wants to get illegal immigration in check. For a more detailed examination of all the amendments see Numbers USA
The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) says it doesn't go far enough though.
The bill is advertised to House Republicans and the majority of Americans who demand fixing our broken immigration system as tough medicine: "comprehensive immigration enforcement." While it treats some of the symptoms, is does not, in fact, do enough to actually cure the illness.
The legislation offers some useful changes by addressing alien smuggling, detention and removal, and curbing of court abuses by illegal aliens. However, it fails to address the fundamental incentives driving illegal immigration. Lenders will continue to issue mortgages to illegal aliens, banks will continue to accept unverifiable consular identification documents, illegal alien families will continue to claim and get the earned income tax credit and other benefits designed for citizens, and the babies of illegal aliens will continue to be given the gratuitous gift of citizenship. In other words, it offers little to no real, substantive enforcement.
This is a bill that controls the borders with reams of reports, studies and promises. The heart of the bill, intended to cut off the jobs magnet, does little more than the status quo -and as Ronald Reagan pointed out is "just Latin for the mess we're in." With the public overwhelmingly demanding substantive immigration enforcement, we are baffled as to why the leadership would offer a bill that does so little toward true enforcement.
While I agree that more needs to be done I am thrilled with what has been passed so far. I am disappointed that when it comes to a conference with the Senate that it will be watered down. The main hazard to this bill is that it will be a one time deal and after passage everyone will rest on their laurels and figure they have done enough to curb illegal immigration and will go no further.
My fear is that additional attempts to pass further legislation will be looked at as simply "immigrant bashing" since they've "already passed so much".
Enemies of the US have already started slamming the passage of the bill. Mexican President Vicente Fox has this to say:
President Vicente Fox on Wednesday criticized the United States' decision to strengthen its border security and complete a wall along the two countries common border calling it "disgraceful and shameful."
"This situation we're seeing, a disgraceful and shameful moment where walls are being built, security systems are being reinforced, and human and labor rights are being violated more and more, won't protect the economy of the United States," Fox said.
Juan Mann over at The Immigration Blog notes that there is nothing in the bill that forces employers to fire illegal aliens.
Section 702 states:
(v) CONSEQUENCES OF NONVERIFICATION—(I) TERMINATION OR NOTIFICATION OF CONTINUED EMPLOYMENT—If the person or other entity has received a final nonverification regarding an individual, the person or entity may terminate employment of the individual (or decline to recruit or refer the individual). If the person or entity does not terminate employment of the individual or proceeds to recruit or refer the individual, the person or entity shall notify the Secretary of Homeland Security of such fact through the verification system or in such other manner as the Secretary may specify.
So there you have it — may terminate employment of the individual . . . the smoking gun of non-enforcement.
In Search Of Utopia
The Florida Masochist
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Posted by Digger on December 19, 2005 08:03 AM (Permalink)
I AM AGAINST THIS BILL HR4437 THE HISPANICS MAILY COME TO WORK AND HAVE A BETTER LIFE IN THE U.S AND THIS COUNTRY IS MADE OF IMMIGRANTS. THE ARE SO MANY JOBS THAT THE HISPANICS WILL DO THAT THE AMERICANS WILL NOT PREFORM SUCH AS BEEN COOKS, LANDSCAPING, PICKING CROPS, AND MANY MORE. THE HISPANICS WERE NOT THE ONES THAT ACCAUSED THE SEPT. 11 IN FACT MANY DIED DURING THE ATTACK AND THIS JUST SEEMS TO BE A RACIAL THING. THE TERROSIT ENTERED THE U.S BY FLYING IN FIRST CLASS AND NOT CROSSING THE MEXICAN BORDER. I HAVE HOPE AND FAITH IN GOD THAT HOW THE AFRICAN AMERICANS HAD A MARTING LUTHER KING JR THE HISPANICS WILL TOO. I THINK THAT YES THERE SHOULD BE LAWS AGAINST DRUG SMUGGLING BUT WHAT ABOUT THOSE GOOD PEOPLE THAT JUST WANT A JOB AND A BETTER LIFE. LOOK BACK AT HISTORY HOW MANY PEOPLE WHERE RECIEVED A ELLLIS ISLAND COMING IN AS IMMIGRANTS. I SUPPORT THE LATINOS AGAINST THIS LAW
Posted by: Sandy on March 3, 2006 12:59 AM
I agree 100% with Sandy. The whole concept behind HR4437 is unamerican. This nation was founded upon a dream and a creed that "all mean are created equal." This means all men, yes all men, documented and undocumented, white, black or brown.
This bill targets a group of hardworking individuals and neglects the fact that at the core of this issue are there people. People that came here to live out the American dream and in so doing have strengthened our democracy and our economy.
Lets face it, we need immigrants, its the American way. So why are we punishing the undocumented americans and shooting ourselves in the leg by passing HR4437? I don't care what label you give this racist and idiotic legislation in the end Sensenberger, the congressman who sponsored this bill, had one aim, and that was to push his own nativist policies and punish Latin American undocumented workers simply because hes scared of the fact that they are brown. Besides, why would we spend millions upon millions of dollars building a racist 700 mile long wall when not only our economy needs those who cross illegally but that money could be better spent strenghtening intel along the border, which isnt archaic like a wall.
It's time that we as Americans wake up and uphold America's creed and America's promise. Dont allow HR 4437 to tell any immigrant, in any school, in any neighborhood, on any block. that the American dream was a lie. "No Human Being is Illegal" That's why I oppose abortion and support Immigrant Rights.
I urge all Americans to call their Senators and tell them to uphold America's creed and her promise. Call them and let them know to vote NO on HR4437. If you live in Chicago attend a rally on Friday March 10th at Federal Plaza from 2pm - 5pm or start at 12 noon at Ashland and Lake and march to Federal Plaza. America was founded on democracy and democracy means action. When we take action we can stop this unamerica bill.
Posted by: Charlie on March 8, 2006 12:46 AM
a massive protest against 4437 is planned for this friday in chicago, a truly cosmopolitan city containing more poland-born poles than any city in Polonia outside of warsaw and, as a dublin cab driver once dejectedly informed me, more ireland-born irish than all those inhabiting the emerald isle combined -- amazingly, an incredibly large percentage of both groups (and, also, members of countries neighboring poland---lithuania in particular) are here illegally, largely hidden in a burgeoning underground construction industry and recent targets of on-site union protests ... it is clear that the general consensus is that more needs to be done to protect the borders and, as usual, rather than pointing to any detailed account of how illegal immigrants damage the economy
(don't just talk to small business owners desperately relying on mexican dishwashers cooks, or janitors for survival and their fight against the goliaths quickly obliterating the small gems throughout our country that give both small towns and cities any semblence of CHARACTER--- talk to the dying farmers who, even with the illegal immigrant crutch are facing economic death and the end of generations of family tradition)
rely cheaply on the crass fear generated by 9/11 ... to call it vulgar manipulation is to be gernerous... what on earth, for example, does denying u.s. born children citizenship have to do with terrorism ... it's particulars like this that really brings out the not-so-latent racism behind this bill --- what is most shocking, however, is the sheer idiocy couching many of its supporters' arguments---e.g., before getting the earned income credit, you must have CONTRIBUTED TO THE ECONOMY BY PAYING TAXES in the first place --- clearly, economic danger we are not. in Chicago THE COUNTRY"S THIRD LARGEST CITY, not only are european, asian AND MEXICAN illegals the blue collar bloodline of the city, but the mexican and indian/pakistani business district (26th street and devon, for those wondering) are the TWO MAIN tax revenue sources of the city. I welcome all to verify any of what I've said and straighten me out where necessary. My father came here illegally at the end of the 60's. He was caught three times and sent back each time. The fourth time he was caught he was let go by the INS officer that apprehended him, some deep incongruity must have crippled the officer. Here he was, ready to deport a man who, not unlike his grandfather, had not only come here to work but had found work at an immunitions factory supplying u.s. soldiers in 'nam. most if not all of the "born to illegals" in my family have gone on to not only contribute both economically and culturally (teachers, engineers, and PHD's in the humanities), but three of my cousins are also in Iraq. It is profoundly painful to have your existence/status questioned (again, us "born to illegals") by folks that forget that they too are products of folks that left their country for a better existence, that they too are the progeny of folk that oftentimes were poor and illiterate farm people that struggled with english upon arrival, that they too--the irish in particular-- were the targets of blind and oftentimes brutal xenophobia at the hands third-world europe's progeny. This, unfortunately, is the price paid for the historical amnesia many, especially kids, in this country suffer from.
Posted by: born into-terrorism on March 8, 2006 01:05 PM
Are you serious? I am all for IMMIGRANTS coming to American and then taking the test and becoming LEGAL. I don't recall when I and others around me had the salary of Opra Winfrey or Donald Trump that we could afford to GIVE for free ALL the benefits we are giving these ILLEGAL immigrants. They get brand name medicine instead of the generic I have to buy, they don't have to pay taxes on there pay checks and we help them in many different ways. Even though companies who are helping them say that it is free for the immigrant, the charges get higher for the people who DO have to pay. I am middle class and I can't pay for my 4 year old's preschool so she is at home with my mom. We altimately are going to have to pay for them. Why can't people understand that. IF they want to stay BE LEGAL like the rest of us who have to pay taxes!
Posted by: Judy on March 15, 2006 09:40 AM
This Bill is totally ridiculous, anyone who is human could see that.
Posted by: Iheartsocialism on March 16, 2006 11:27 AM
This response is to Judy's post on March 15th.
Please realize that the illegal immigrants here in the U.S. very much would like to become legal. It is not an easy process, and not near as simple as just taking a test. They would gladly pay taxes if granted citizenship.
Your situation of not being able to afford preschool for your child has nothing to do with illegal immigrants residing in this country. Illegal immigrants are not taking away money or resources that you might otherwise receive.
How about taking a moment to think about how this great country came into being? "Americans" from Europe invaded this country, and through the use of force and violence, stole it from the American Indian people, They tried their darndest to exterminate American Indians by giving them blankets laced with small pox. For those who didn't die, they tried to "civilize" them by forcing them to convert to Christianity, and by forcing males to cut their hair. The cruel acts mentioned here barely touch the surface of all the horrible things we did to the original inhabitants of this country that we are now trying to reserve for ourselves. Please remember that unless you are an American Indian, then you most likely come from immigrant ancestors.
Just because we have the good fotune to be here now, doesn't mean that we should close down the borders to make sure no one else can get inside. There are plenty of resources within this country to support all of us -- the problem is that these resources are not evenly distributed to people from all walks of life.
Posted by: Jeannie on March 19, 2006 12:30 AM
I would like some of these anti immigrants to spend a week in some of these illegal immigrants countries and live their life for just one week and then tell me they wouldn't risk their lives to come here undocumented for a better life for their kids. I know some of these illegals do abuse the system but so do some citizens. This land is not anybody's land, we here are all immigrants or descendents of immigrants except for the native americans. Yeah, people want to use 9/11 as an excuse for the anti-immigrant backlash and yeah it hurt me badly when 9/11 happened. My parents came here to escape from that terrorism in our country and damn even in America it was inescapable but ...what about timothy mcfayed ....was he not born here...was he skin not white? Anybody whether they're black or white or yellow can be a terrorist if they have enough hatred in their heart and that's the sad part. Can't we all just get along?
Posted by: Patty Tacuri on March 22, 2006 01:54 PM
WELCOME TO NAZI AMERICA; WHERE'S YOUR PAPERS
THIS LAND WAS STOLEN BY THE WHITES; THEY MADE SLAVES OF
THE INDIANS, AND BROUGHT SLAVES FROM AFRICA BEAUSE THEY
ARE TO DAMN LAZY TO WORK THEMSELVES...
THEY STEAL THE WESTERN STATES THROUGH THE TREATY OF
GUADALUPE HIDALGO 1848; AND THEN DESIRE TO KICK OUT
ALL THE REST OF THEM MEXICANS...
THE TEXAS RANGERS MURDERED MANY A FAMILY;
AND NOW BECAUSE YOU WHITES DO NOT WANT TO SHARE WHAT YOU
STOLE WITH THE PEOPLE YOU STOLE IT FROM...
YOU WANT TO MAKE A CRIMNINAL OF EVERY HUMAN WHO CAME HERE
THROUGH DESPERATION AND FEAR...
NO IMMIGRANT WILL TAKE AWAY ANYTHING YOU WHITES HAVE GOTTEN
THE IMMIGRANTS ONLY WORK THEIR ASSES OFF, AND GET
NO BENEFITS WHATSOEVER...
NAZI AMERICA NAZI AMERICA MAZI AMERICA NAZI AMERICA NAZI AMERICA NAZI AMERICA NAZI AMERICA "SHOW ME YOUR PAPERS"
Posted by: Rick on March 23, 2006 02:35 PM
THATS RIGHT! WHO ARE THE HARDWORKING PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY? WELL IT SURE ISNT THE WHITE PEOPLE. THE MEXICANS OF COURSE WE ARE THE ONLY ONES ACTUALLY "WORKING" AROUND HERE. THE WHITES WANT TO BE SITTING IN A CHAIR IN AN OFFICE. THESE ARE THE FACTS, FACE IT!!!!
Posted by: ANNA on March 23, 2006 06:35 PM
HOW MANY TROOPS IN IRAQ ARE FATHERED BY IMMIGRANTS?? WILL THEY BE CRIMINALS IF H.R.4437 PASSES? WHO MADE THIS BILL? SOME KKK MEMBER? IT'S STUPID....NO ON H.R.4437!!!!
Posted by: THE VOICE on March 24, 2006 12:53 PM
illegal immigrants, that says it all. no one has a problem with legal immigration. as for white people they are the only ones trying to feed, cloth,and defend all the brown people of the world. why don"t you brown racist go to Mexico and demostrate, could it be that you are afraid of Presidente Fox. "its Fox who wants his people to leave the country." no doubt he would have his soldiers shoot you on the spot. just Americans are dumb enough to let you come illegally to their country and start demostrating the first day you arrive. must be all the free food we give you and the free medicine.
Posted by: Bill Blank on March 25, 2006 09:01 AM
I hope 4437 passes the senate although it is not strict enough, but it's a start in the right direction. I'm tired of Mexicans, or whom ever, running through our country causing termoil,refusing to obey our laws, with no intention of becoming an American. They need to learn the laws of this nation, speak our language, take our tests and be sworn in as an american citizens, in the time allowed or get the hell out of our country. If an American citizen would go to Mexico or most any nation and pull the things the illegals are doing here we would probably be shot. Scott Booth
Posted by: Scott Booth on March 25, 2006 11:08 AM
It seems to me that all the people against this bill are the racist ones. Thats right, racist against white people. This bill doesn't single out Mexicans. If a European enters the U.S illegally, that person will be in violation of the law as well. I am a 40 year old white male and I have had steady employment since I was 17 years old. I guess that makes me "lazy". I hope this bill passes and makes ILLEGAL Immigration a felony.
Posted by: SK on March 25, 2006 12:01 PM
as to the last three posts, I'm a bit lost--I need some help here:
1) where exactly are white people feeding and clothing brown people? iraq? rwanda? aids ravaged africa? (what free medicine? those days are gone -FOR EVERYBODY- ASK YOUR MOM OR ANY ELDERLY FOLK YOU KNOW)
2)hey booth. exactly what "turmoil" (try lerning how to spell before asking others to learn your language) are we causing? like all your third-world european fore-fathers (apart from genocide and mass starvation what else have peoples like the serbs and chetnyans contributed to the betterment of mankind), it usually takes one generation to learn the language? give us a break ... surely your polish, russian, german, italian great grand p's were given one.
3)and dear "sk", how exactly is going against 4437 being anti-white? there is some strange-ass logic here bordering on idiocy? in the protest last week in chicago, we had polse, irish and bosnians come out, united with mexicans, against 4437. I'm pretty sure no one here believes 4437 only applies to mexicans. but maybe that's only here, where we are exposed to diversity other than that caused by inbred deformities. we work. and we work our butts off. in factories and, more importnatly, in the fields. without our union with americans farmers (white american farmers, mind you) the tomatoes on those triple whoppers you obese half-literates from the interior thrive on (whether it be at culver's or BK) would be unaffordable, your wal-marts would be dirty, etc. etc.
Read a little---GOOGLE, at least--- before you spit your idiocies around
Posted by: born into terrorism on March 25, 2006 12:56 PM
Going against 4437 is not anti-white. Maybe I should have said "some of" or "most of" instead of "all". I do view these statements as anti-white racist statements though.
“THATS RIGHT! WHO ARE THE HARDWORKING PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY? WELL IT SURE ISNT THE WHITE PEOPLE. THE MEXICANS OF COURSE WE ARE THE ONLY ONES ACTUALLY "WORKING" AROUND HERE. THE WHITES WANT TO BE SITTING IN A CHAIR IN AN OFFICE. THESE ARE THE FACTS, FACE IT!!!!”
Posted by: ANNA at March 23, 2006 06:35 PM
”BEAUSE THEY ARE TO DAMN LAZY TO WORK THEMSELVES...”
Posted by: Rick at March 23, 2006 02:35 PM
And don't forget the anti-American statement.
"NAZI AMERICA NAZI AMERICA MAZI AMERICA NAZI AMERICA NAZI AMERICA NAZI AMERICA NAZI AMERICA "SHOW ME YOUR PAPERS"
Posted by: Rick at March 23, 2006 02:35 PM
This bill is no comparison to what happened to the Jews.
"you obese half-literates from the interior thrive on "
Posted by: born into terrorism at March 25, 2006 12:56 PM
1. I'm far from being obese.
2. I live near the southwest border.
3. What makes you think I'm a "half-literate".
I've found that most of the socialist liberals that are pro illegal immigration resort to name calling instead of finding solutions to the immigration problem. Here's the problem; It's just a matter of time before terrorists cross the southwestern border, if they haven't already, and you people want to leave the border open.
Posted by: SK on March 25, 2006 02:13 PM
wow. what a surprise. you're clearly not as stupid as many of the hicks that have recently come down from the hills to support 4437. And, you're right, name-calling doesn't really accomplish anything (I usually only rely on this as a garnish). I'm shocked, however, that you are still attached to the "terrorism" bent on this. Even that pimple of our president has come to realize that that angle (as support for the war) doesn't work anymore. You can only fool half-awake americans for so long. Even supporters of 4437 are starting to turn to economic and cultural arguments. You may want to load up on that type of ammunition instead. Illegal mexicans, to be exact, have had absolutely nothing to do with terrorism. Nothing related to terrorism has been linked to the mexican border( the direct target of "the wall"). Absolutely nothing. If we protest, it is to have the same right your grandparents had when they first arrived, to work, to learn, to go to school, to contribute to the economy, to be treated, if not with equality, than with A BARE minimum of decency. Also, AND THIS GOES FOE EVERYONE, an incredible amount ignorance is betrayed when the legal/illegal distinction is brought out.
None of your european fathers and mothers ever faced this type of "persecution of the illegals" because such laws were --conveniently-- not in place at the time. All were welcomed. SUCH PERSECUTION WOULD HAVE BEEN IMPOSSIBLE AT A TIME WHEN THE ONLY DRIVE AND CONCERN WAS THAT OF ESTABLISHING "SQUATTER'S RIGHTS."
Posted by: born into terrorism on March 25, 2006 02:51 PM
hey!!born into terrorism"(what a bunch of bull) I don't think YOUR punctuation so great either and I'll spell any way I want, You sure got the meaning. GREAT. I thought some might not get it!! If you were "born into terrorism" maybe you should go back to where you were born, we don't need it here, and if my posts sounds racist, so be it. I mean every word of it. As long as I got your attention so you could spread some more of ignorant B.S.
Posted by: Scott Booth on March 25, 2006 03:26 PM
woh woh woh woh son. relax. you're gonna hurt yourself. sorry for having smoked you out of that hut you've been locked up in for so long. I targeted your spelling 'cause, i figure, the least you can do before running around asking others to learn english is to learn it yourself. I was born here and "born into terrorism" meaning the terrorism of racism but, after now, i'm not quite sure which is worse, the terrorism of bigotry or the terrorism of straight-up stupidity.
Posted by: born into terrorism on March 25, 2006 05:00 PM
Illegal aliens are filling up our prisons.
We can deport them, but they return.
Just like Jorge Hernandez, a.k.a. Jorge Soto, who killed Min Soon Chang, an 18-year-old college freshman, in a terrible head-on wreck while Hernandez was driving drunk. He had been arrested 3 previous times for drunk driving in 3 other states, and he had been deported to Mexico 17 times!
First of all, let me say that I do not hate any one from any nation. This is not an issue of race, nationality, etc. I simply do not like illegal aliens (no matter where they come from) burdening our healthcare, education, welfare, insurance, law enforcement, and prison systems. Please do not make a race, class, nationality, etc. issue out of this.
Donnell H. Harvey,
Yep, We are being over-run, and we are too lazy to do anything about this problem, like so many other pressing problems, then Americans deserve the consequences of their own laziness and negligence.
I don't think enough Americans understand the magnitude of the problem.
There are about 27 million illegal aliens.
Deporting them all will be very difficult.
That's why politicians are thinking guest-worker permits.
Americans have sold themselves out, and are being crushed by the weight of their laziness and stupidity. Perhaps Americans sold themselves out long ago, and we are merely witnessing the transfer of assets?
But, no reforms (including immigration reform) are possible until one fundamental change is made first. All voters need to do is the one simple, common-sense, no-brainer, non-partisan, safe, peaceful, inexpensive, and responsible thing voters were supposed to be doing all along:
Vote out (or recall) all irresponsible incumbents, always, every election, until no more irresponsible incumbents exist, and government finally agrees to pass the many badly-needed, common-sense, responsible reforms that incumbents have refused to pass for so many decades.
Posted by: dan on March 25, 2006 07:47 PM
woh woh woh woh your self son. terrorism of racism? Give me a break! I'm not sure if you know which is worse, terrorism of bigotry, or terrorist of straight up stupidity but I'm sure you know the meaning because you are all the above.
4437 all the way.
Posted by: Scott Booth on March 25, 2006 09:31 PM
Yes to HB4437. This invasion of immigrants, primarily Mexicans and South Americans but also others including terrorists, is wrecking havoc on America. The environment is being degragated in an unimaginable manner and this land was not meant to have 300+ million people in it. The wages are being driven down for all but the very rich and the income gap is at about its highest ever largely because of this mass illegal activity. The tradition and prestige of America is in grave peril as these illegals will never be come Americanized and will move this nation closer to what the illegals had in their homeland--lawlessness, irresponsiblity, little if any education, poor health standards, rampant immorality, and a firmly established mindset of mediocrity and exceptance of a third world economic model and eternal failure to join the middle class in action, personal responsiblity, citizenship, community participation, American cultural hegenomy, appearance (no tattoos, raggedy clothing, moustaches), and most importantly the English language in all uses and in all aspects of everyday life. Th bottom line is that these illegals intend to fully Mexicanize America with everything , particularly bad, that that nation is been about for centuries.
Posted by: Pat Jaeger on March 27, 2006 01:43 PM
Check out this website.
And remember, these poor people are only coming here to work.
Seriously, to Pat Jaeger, I couldn't have said it better myself. If you've ever been to the southwest border, you can see it yourself.
As for all of these protesters. Do you notice how many of them are waving foreign (primarily Mexican) flags. That is why I consider this an invasion. When you place your flag on foreign soil, you are claiming that land as yours.
These people don't want to be Americans, they just want to get all the benefits the United States has to offer them.
I believe Theodore Roosevelt said it best in 1907.
"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907
America is a melting pot, but some of the people in our melting pot refuse to "melt".
The whole purpose in coming to America, should be to become an American.
Posted by: SK on March 27, 2006 02:28 PM
Something that everyone seems to be forgetting, this is not a bill to keep the Mexicans out of the US. Remember that there is a way of going about earning legal US status. It doesn't seem that many border crossers seem to know this or care. I have many friends from Europe that have lived here in Arizona and when their visas ran out they had to go back to Europe as much as they didn't want to. A few of them have applied for citizenship but the line is long... Immigrants are what formed the US but illegally flooding the country is not the solution. If you want to be in this country, wait in line like everyone else has to and learn english for god sake!!
Posted by: Jack on March 27, 2006 03:36 PM
to jaeger and his sidekick(sk)
we are not degrading the environment. if anything, we are saving it. close to 70 percent of agricultural workers in the us are immigrants, mostly mexican--legal and illegal, (i'll grant mostly illegal). we are behind most of the production of your fruits and vegetables ... and, we are not keeping wages low... shoot ... there are no real wage standards out there on the farm---aside from FARM AID and other very small sources of farmer assistance, we are it ... what jobs have we taken? car washers, dish washers, landscapers, the shit jobs ... that's what we have taken. we are this country's much needed slave backbone. why do you think bush is so deperate to push 4437 aside. you think his family and friends up and down the border aren't complaining about this invasion? and yet ... there he is, promoting guest-worker programs, why? are we responsible for all the outsourcing that has and continues taking place? recent arrivals are not competing with educated americans for jobs that pay a dignified amount?
the health care crisis has been growing worse since the 80's, due to a system that most americans have passively given in to, not to any burden placed by immigrants. The cost of helping recent immigrants is not the problem. are we the reason why certain governors were considering going against the law by facilitating the purchase of drugs from canada? or is it big pharmaceuticals that don't give a shit about the american populace (look at the preassure they put on canada--since they provide the drugs we buy from them in the first place--when word got out about what governors like the one here in illinois were trying to do) we are an easy scapegoat for many of the ills caused, not by immigrants helping keep this boat afloat, but by pocket-breaking elemenmts in our system. we are the only ones willing to perform the jobs and services that most of you would never do. From cleaning toilets at chukee cheeze to fighting in iraq with our broken english, we are paying our dues. There is nothing lazier than to latch on, unthinkingly, to an easy scapegoat. Next time your nephew or young cousin decides that he would rather fill out an application to be on jerry springer than one that may get him a job at sears, a job he is suposedly "too qualified" for, think about this.
finally, with this friggin' english thing. many of you, i'm sure, couldn't even begin to know what your forefathers struggled with, language-wise, when they first arrived here from germany, warsaw, lithuania, albania, greece, and even glasgow? it takes, at least one generation. don't worry, however, keep at it. my mother came here illegally and five months pregnant. I was made in mexico but born here. I love this country and everything it stands for. and i thank all the racist trash that kept humiliating my parents for not speaking english. thanks to them i have a master's degree in philosophy from the university of chicago and saved enough moneyto study, of all things, english literature at corpus christi college at oxford. the browning of america is inevitable. and i must tell you, the more racist and xenophobic you guys get, the stronger and more resilient we will become.
Posted by: born into terrorism on March 27, 2006 05:13 PM
THIS IS SOME BULL SHIT THAT IS GOING ON THE WITH ARE PEOPLE HALF OF THE POPULATION IS LATINO OR ANY OTHER IMGRANTION RACE BUT MAINLY TOWORDS LATINO MEN AND WOMEN AMD CHILDREN,IF THE BILL GOES THREW WHO IS GOING TO CLEAN YOUR HOUSE AND CLEAN YOUR YARD AND ANY OTHER DUTYS THAT LATIINOS DO FOR U AMERICANS
Posted by: MATTHEW LOPEZ on March 27, 2006 05:50 PM
I m also 2gen immigrant but i agree with HR 4437,
BC i want to keep US as the NO 1 country,
it has been and it still is but it is slowly going dump
can'nt you see..?
what illegal means..?
if something is illegal, you should not have it,
you guys still don get it..?
i m 2nd gen immigrant but me and my family were never illegal, we paid all the dues, we respect and followed the immigrant law(which will never be respected by "border crossing mexicans")
now my tax money goes to some1 i don even know, don even belong in US(while i pay 200usd for health insurance and 3usd for Gal of GAS),
what about crimes commited by illegals..?
one of my friend's dad was police officer in OC CA area, but about 5 yrs ago he got shot during traffic stop check up by illegal mexican, by the time they run the info on this guy and tried to arrest him, he was looooong gone to mexico, so whos gonna take care his family, my friend will never find his dad muderer,
also about 2 yrs ago at night, my car got in to hit and run by illegal mexicans, as they were driving off i saw the lisence plate and i gave the Numbers to police, after few weeks later all i got was phone call from LAPD that the van who hit my car was driving by illegal mexican, who was already in mexico.. and i was the one with higher rate of insurance... what is this..?
this is not the country i love and admired...
i came to this country to have better life, i m happy univ. grad and i can say i have done most of my dues
this country was built on good IDEAS, by people who respect and followed law, i wanna keep the country as it was forever
the STrongest, NO 1 country, that why i m so with HR 4437’
I M WITH IT.....
Posted by: B.calio on March 27, 2006 08:11 PM
Well Matthew lopez we clean our house and and clean our yard,(about 1000 acres of it) with out the help of illegal Aliens.
B. calio, I would say you have paid your dues and it's good to see someone who knows what the Illegals are doing to our country. You are an American and you are proud of it. America needs more like you.
Posted by: Scott Booth on March 27, 2006 09:55 PM
Pass these amendments but increase the quotas and make the process quicker for legal-immigrants to enter this country. That way we can control immigration but keep a strong number of immigrants entering this country annually. Thats just my idea.
Posted by: KBrown on March 27, 2006 11:32 PM
First of all, I would like to say, that most Latinos run the janitorial systems, and anything else that involves hard labor with little pay. WE as LATINOS, need to unite, and stop talking about taking action, and actually do something for a change, like VOTING! I mean, im underage, but all the Latinos, that have the right to vote, then USE IT!!I also dont know why, they're passing this stupid Bill, when, they know that us as Latinos, we're the ones that clean-up offices, we cook the food so that THEY can enjoy it. Basically what im trying to say, is that WITHOUT ALL THE LATINOS IN THIS COUNTRY, THEY WOULD BE LOST!!!! so just think about that, next time u want to hire someone to cut your yard, instead get off your lazy but and do it YOURSELF!!!!!!!
Posted by: jackie on March 28, 2006 05:46 PM
Guess what people! this may blow your minds-- "Illegals" usually have to submit a social security number, yes many of these are fakes, or bought on the street.... but that means that income taxes are DEDUCTED from the worker's pay check every week. And unlike the rest of you, on April 15th, they do not get a refund. Do you understand that this means in revenue to the US treasury? I do not want to read another stupid comment from you Americans that think we illegals get a free ride. It does not happen! We PAY TAXES, and recieve little in services, mostly out of fear of being found out. We live outside the system because we have such a desire to succeed, for our families, and for our futures. Wake up people.
Posted by: another illegal with an education on March 28, 2006 06:29 PM
to Pat Jaeger--
you are so right. how can the new breed of immigrants possibly compare with the murderers, the rapists, the thieves, that expanded this country under the guise of Manifest Destiny?
Posted by: another illegal with an education on March 28, 2006 06:49 PM
I can not for the life of me imagine how anybody could possably think that adding another 11 million people for citizenship and all of the benifits that come with it would benifit this country
If you do, plain and simply you are an IDIOT
Social Security is forcasted to be in ruin by 2023 and you think adding 11 million more people to an already cripiling problem is good GET SERIOUS
People who are in the country illegal stand a better chance of receiving benifits that a standard tax payer does not qualify for THIS I KNOW FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE
so don't think for one second it's not true because it is
Put VERY plainly, I can't qualify for any sort of assistence which is funded by my taxes which a person here illegaly who pays very little or nothing at all because employers pay them under-the-table qualify for
IT IS REDICULIOUS
We can not fix the problems of our legal population by houseing the population of another country
I have great empithy for the hispanic community and the plite of there country but you don't fix a problem at your house by staying at your neighbors
If hispanic's are in such dire need of a better life then
(with all respects) CLEAN YOUR OWN HOUSE-if your goverment is plaquged by coruption FIX-IT
Posted by: ken on March 28, 2006 07:58 PM
Hey Wassup? well look here White folks. a TRUE MEXICAN SPEAKING. I understand that you Crackers Are scared and it's perfectly fine. Your only Scared cuz you know that your jobs are at risk. You guys can diss me on my . Wait You guys Call it" Punctuatuion" it may not be the best but i know you guys get the point. You white people just racis and hard headed peckerwoods. We Started something and Unlike You White Folks we finish it. and we strive to continue to get to our goal to be Legal and United.HB 4437 Will not pass!!! We Won't give up and end up like you white Bumbs living in the streets. And Scott Booth You Can Suck this, Mexican Dick and shove it up your moms old White wrinkled pussy! i know your mom loves dick.since she sucked yours. I'm Not Gunna Lie I'm Hatin but at least i don't deney it. like white deney saying there not Races
Posted by: you scared huh? on March 28, 2006 08:21 PM
Hey scared huh?
Look here, a true AMERICAN speaking!
You want to call me a cracker and then say I'm the racist one? I'm not racist, I just don't like to see people breaking the law. Do all true Mexicans use your type of language. If they do, I don't want to be around them. Sounds like you're the scared one. People usually get defensive when they're scared. You can always go home if you don't like it here.
Posted by: SK on March 29, 2006 12:49 PM
I'm not white, but i'm voting yes on HR 4437. I became citizen here and i went through the whole process. This is not just for hispanics. This is for everybody of different backgrounds. If you think about it, hispanics gets a lot of special treatment. Why is it that during my interview i have to study everything in english and answer all the questions in english, while hispanics have the questionnaire in spanish and is allowed to answer the question is spanish? Why is it that citizens from other states when they study here in California doesn't get a discount and a "undocumented" person gets one? If hispanics complain that this bill is not fair, where is the fair and equality on my end? If you look at France now, they have a bill, i don't know if it's been passed or aboout to be pass that people who wants to be a French citizen should be fluent in French. If hispanic, wants a better way of living so do i. I think everybody who wants to live here in US wants a better way of living, but we got to do it right. My friend who's mexican was killed by another mexican, but since the one who killed him is undocumented, there was not way to track him down. Illegal immigrants can just disobey the law and go back to their country. I think that's what US is trying to prevent. If you want to live here and have a better way of living, then this bill is for your own good. I vote yes on this bill because of my friend and because i want everybody to be equal.
Posted by: Skix on March 29, 2006 02:37 PM
ok people, im white, and i was born in America of course. and i see where a lot of you people came from. my high school is planning on marching this Friday and i plan to march and protest even though i am white. a lot of immigrants came here for a better life for themselves and their families, why cant they have a better life if we get one, arent all people equal? people are complaining about how mexicans come here and get on welfare, this and that, but they those people need a reality check, if they are complaining about mexicans, ook at asians. ive never met an asian who didnt have atleast 3 siblings. and they are mostly all on welfare, the more kids you have, they more money you get from welfare. well, thats my opinion, if you agree, disagree, or wanna get your point across to me, email me. email@example.com.
Posted by: Melissa on March 29, 2006 11:22 PM
Well I dont support hr4437 at all!! It's ridiculous. If this law is passed it could ruin peoples lives!! It's not easy getting papers it takes a long time and cost a lot of money!! For example, if there is a family who get their papers, and they been here for a while but when they get their papers they say that all of a sudden they can't stay anymore!! The problem is the family has 3 little ones who are u.s. citizens!! They would be forced to go back to wherever they came from and they cant take their kids with them because again that is crossing another border!! This hr4437 is all so complicated. To all the senate leaders why would you wanT to be the one to ruin the immigrants lives!! Why don't you try to put yourself in their situation!! After all having immigrants is not all bad! They would take jobs that most peple won't, and they are part of the u.s culture!! To be honest this whole country is made up of immigrants. Some that have there papers and some that don't!! Why should people who try to help out their family be punished!!I am not a immigrant, and i am black!!! I DONT THINK THAT THIS HR4437 IS FAIR AT ALL!!!
Posted by: DARRYLYNN MAJIED on March 29, 2006 11:51 PM
I appreciate the immigrants all the way!! For all the people who agree with this HR4437 you shouldn't!! Do you realize that immigrants are risking their lives and childrens lives just to live the AMERICAN DREAM? Trying to get into the U.S illegally is a big risk!! You could get shot on the spot or even worSe,.... killed!! If the immigrants are willing to come here illegally because they can't get here legally then i think they should be let in!! For the people who get their papers denied more than 2 times and ALL the people who want to come to the U.S should be granted a three year Visa at least!! I MEAN ITS NOT LIKE WE'RE OVERPOPULATED! This house bill is unfair and everybody knows it deep inside themselves!! No one deserves to be shot on spot even if you are trying to get in the U.S illegally!! Captured and put to jail for a couple of days okay, but to have your life taken away just like that because you wanted to live a better Life isn't AMERICAN AT ALL!!
Posted by: DARRYLYNN MAJIED on March 30, 2006 12:41 AM
Many people are not aware that the United States each year grants 55,000 visas to random people from countries around the world with low immigration rates to the United States. This federal program is run by the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services bureau, and is called the Diversity Lottery. You can read more about this program here: http://uscis.gov/graphics/services/residency/divvisa.htm
Now, think about this for a minute. Why is it that people from certain countries (i.e., Nigeria, and other African countries) are granted visas easily, yet people from other countries (i.e., Mexico) are not? Our government claims to value diversity, yet does not allow equal opportunity for people from all countries to obtain the legal right to live and work here. I'd like to point out that one of the problems with this federal program is that many of the people who come here through this program already hold college degrees from their own countries, yet their degrees are not recognized here in the U.S., so they end up working in the service industry. As everyone knows, the service industry does not pay well, so some of the immigrants who came here via the legal route with the diversity lottery actually end up using those very same social services that so many people are complaining the Mexicans are consuming.
The Mexicans are not the problem, and neither are the Asians, or any other group of immigrants.
Let's all remember that you don't have to trace your geneological record very far back to see that your ancestors immigrated here from another country, too, and they did so with the desire to live a better life for themselves and for their children.
For those of you who support this bill; here is another thing to think about: It was by pure luck that you were born here in the U.S. If you had been born in Mexico, then perhaps you might be able to emphathize a little more with the rest of the people who simply want to come here to live a better life. Let's focus all the negative energy you are expending on this issue toward thinking of positive solutions.
So many of the comments I have read on this website reveal that racism continues to be rampant. It is not as blatant as it once was, when blacks had to ride separate busses and use separate entrances, but it lies subtly below the surface and rears its ugly head when these types of discussions come up. We'd like to pretend that Americans are such an evolved people and that we set the standard around the world, yet so many people still hold such prejudicial, unevolved viewpoints that it really is quite sad and rather shameful. Also, why can't we have a mature discussion of these issues, rather than slinging insults and calling each other names?
Emphathy goes a long ways toward increasing tolerance, peace, and true diversity.
Posted by: Jeannie on March 30, 2006 12:49 AM
Proponents of illegal immigration and their leader V. Fox like to say that "the millions of immigrants are making the U.S. better"...my question is if that is so, why doesn't Fox keep them in his country?
Why doesn't the Mexican government come up with good economic policies to improve the conditions of its people? Where is its pride? How can you let hundreds of thousands of your citizens to risk their lives every year (walking hundreds of miles across the desert, swimming the colorado river etc...) just to get in tihs country?
I am baffled when I hear arguments that "all men are created equal" so we should let the immigrants come in. It is TRUE that America is a nation of immigrants and it needs immigrants! But it doesn't need ILLEGAL immigrants. They are MILLIONS of people all over the world who want to come here and who are filing out applications every day while waiting their turns. Why should Mexicans get all the benefits just because we share a border with them?
Those who say that this bill is racist, how would Mexico like it if let's say HAITIANS (who are economically much worse off than you are) decided to illegally migrate to Mexico? I know this won't happen because Mexico has nothing to offer them economically...this is just a hypothesis...I guarantee you that Mexicans would not have liked it.
if you want diversity, let's try getting immigrants from other nations here (Mexicans are already well represented)...like people from Zaire, Peru, Malaysia, and any other third world nations that is not well represented in the U.S.
WHAT EXACTLY DO YOU GUYS WANT? I understand your frustration with the proposed legislation, I understand your argument about people coming here to better themselves (I believe that 95% of them are hard worker), but it would be irrational for the US to legalize all of them or to keep its borders this wide open. I remind you that in the US constitution, it says that one of the first responsibilities of this nation is to SECURE its border...by military force if necessary! The US has the right to secure its borders (including the northern one) and enforce its laws.
Posted by: Chris on March 30, 2006 06:45 PM
I actually never had a problem with immigrants myself. I am myself one (I was born here, but my parents came from Singapore)...I am against most of the provisions of the legislation BUT I am very offended when I see people protesting waving MEXICANS FLAG. Get a grip people! It's one thing to break laws just because you want to have a better life and feed your family, but it's another thing to FEEL ENTITLE and DEMAND that this country gives you citizenship. You are not entitled to that. Wait your turn like everyone else...Like a poster said, there a millions of people who would do anything to become US citizens. If you want to become one, stop waving flags of wherever you came from. If you are so proud of that place, go back there.
Posted by: Jay on March 30, 2006 06:51 PM
We should secure the border, criminalize illegal immigration, but in return increase the number of legal immigrants the US receives each year. America is what is it today because of its laws and policies. It's not perfect, but it's the best damn place in this world, bare none! Yes Bush is a moron, but we are still the greeatest country in the world.
As the other poster said, it really bothers me when I see immigrants (and I am not against immigrants) waiving foreign flags. Try doing that in France or any other country in Europe. You broke a law, you are not entitled to anything. You chose to come here illegally so accept the consequences. don't go around whining and demanding for social benefits. Those are reserved for LEGAL citizens.
I don't understand the fact that I as a CITIZEN, when I want a job, I have to go through a a background check, credit record check, references, etc...just to get a paycheck, yet they are some people who are non-citizens who can just jump a wall, sit in a back of a pick up truck and get paid. What the heck is wrong with that picture?
Posted by: Emily on March 30, 2006 07:00 PM
I don't agree with the legislation like many people on this site. That said, please stop labelling people who are anti-illegal immigrants as racists, Nazis, or members of the KKK. They are exerting their freedom of speech and have every single right to do so (that exist in Mexico right?).
The facts are illegal immigrants break the law when they enter this country (granted there is a huge demand for them, that's why they are coming). As much as people say that they contribute to the economy, any honest person will tell you that they are a huge drain as well. Our schools are overcrowded, health care system is in shamble etc...
Even without illegal immigrants, this country--as powerful as it may be--already has tons of poverty and social problems. We can't even take care of our own citizens (Katrina refugees, problems in the inner city, etc...). America will not be the same (economically) if we continue to let people in in masses. All we are doing is IMPORTING poverty. Vicente Fox is a douchebag but he is smart...he knows he is the head of a failed state (and that's a shame considering the resources Mexico has), so he is exporting its people here. If it weren't for the money the immigrants send back to their families ever y year (that's in the billions), the mexican economy would have collapsed already.
Posted by: KellyJo on March 30, 2006 07:09 PM
I am an immigrant, a LEGAL ONE, from El Salvador and I have to tell you that mexicans are racist too. I know many people from my country who tried to immigrate to the US through Mexico but the Mexicans who'll deny them entry or expel them once they found out that they were from El Salvador. Isn't that hypocrisy? Everybody should be allowed to come to the US, not just you Mexicans. This country is not yours. I am proud of being from El Salvador and I love my heritage but I am thankful to be a US citizen and very proud of that. All I want is some members of my family who have been trying to join me for a couple of years now to be able to come. They are applying and waiting for their turn. Mexicans should wait for their turn too. Close the border right now. they are messing it up for all of us!
Posted by: Ricardo on March 30, 2006 07:16 PM
As an American citizen, I am truly offended when see foreigners waiving the Mexican flag on this soil. Yes I am white, but I am NOT racist. I would be equally offended if it was some Polish or Irish immigrants.
This country is truly flirting with disater. I was all for immigrants and all, but this whole mass protest has opened my eyes to phenomenons like AZLAN, LA RAZA etc...It's insane how those groups actually advocates that this land was stolen from them so it's their god given right to immigrate here whenever they want. Scary...That dumbass Bush and his cohorts in Congress should better wake up soon. Cheap labor might be good, but at what price?
Posted by: Val on March 30, 2006 07:24 PM
to those who argue that the browning of America is inevitable and how mexicans are so resilient to make that happen and blah blah blah...What will happen when that day arrive? America will be a third world country just like the one you left behind!!! This is not a racist comment. It's FACTS! Mexicans and South Americans (Chili being the exception right now) countries have the worst leaders. Look at the condition of Argentina and Venezuela (Argentina is a much sadder case!). Look at Brazil--much bigger than the US, with as much or more natural resources--but it's barely developed. Mexico is a failed states. If this great country keeps accepting illegal immigrants who refuse to respect our laws, we are bound to become a failed state as well. It will take 50 to 100 years, but it will certainly happen if we don't secure the border.
Posted by: MikeDog on March 30, 2006 07:51 PM
JACKIE: "I also dont know why, they're passing this stupid Bill, when, they know that us as Latinos, we're the ones that clean-up offices, we cook the food so that THEY can enjoy it. Basically what im trying to say, is that WITHOUT ALL THE LATINOS IN THIS COUNTRY, THEY WOULD BE LOST!!!! so just think about that, next time u want to hire someone to cut your yard, instead get off your lazy but and do it YOURSELF!!!!!!!"
If you Mexicans are so great and such hardworkers, why don't you just stay in your country, which has plenty of natural resources, and develop it? If we Americans as so lazy, how did we manage to be the greatest economic power in the face of the earth? And please don't tell me it's because of your help as janitors and great cooks.
You are simply ridiculous Jackie. I understand your desire to be here and have your people come here, but stop with the nonsense.
Posted by: Antoine on March 30, 2006 08:13 PM
THIS IS HILARIOUS BUT SO TRUE:
Firstly i have no problems with mexico, mexicans, or mexican culture. and i realize that this town is called Los Angeles, not The Angels. this is mexico. this city is the second largest spanish speaking city in the world next to mexico city.
with that said, we have laws about how you emmigrate here and how you get your papers. you cannot just bum rush the show. i know what the statue of liberty says but theres an asterick there plain as day. that torch that she holds is the asterick.
yes it says bring me your tired your hungry your huddled masses yearning to breath free but the asterick says but get in line bitch. and im sorry but mexico might be fucked up but its not some totalitarian commie country. the way to fix mexico isnt to let tens of millions of mexicans come here to pick our fruit nanny our white children and hang outside the home depot.
there are unemployed people here in america. its not like everyone has a job here. and if people dont want to pick grapes for $10 a day maybe they shouldnt pick grapes for ten dollars a day and maybe the cost of grapes should go up or maybe someone should invent a machine that picks em cheaper.
hate to say it but we put a man on the moon and we have figured out how to turn ocean water into drinking water, you fuckers can figure out a way to pick grapes so that we can still enjoy our three buck chuck and if you cant omg five buck chuck isnt going to criple the republic. but 11 million undocumented workers suddenly allowed to be documented just might.
only reason bushie wants this to pass is cuz he a)doesnt care about black people b)thinks the mexicans will vote for him and his ilk if theyre allowed to vote c)thinks that the way to run businesses is to exploit poor people. im sorry bro but if those people are american citizens they should not only have a minimum wage, but a living wage. if you fuckers can spend $100 million on iraqi propaganda and $3.7 million on pajamas media, you can figure out a way for farm workers to be able to make enough in a day to get dinner at night.
im sorry for all the people who marched the other day, but marching and being hard working doesnt mean that youre right. youre not right. bank robbers or child molestors can take to the streets too for all i care, theyre not right either and just because theres a lot of them or their hearts might be in the right place doesnt mean that i have to agree with them.
Posted by: tonypierce on March 30, 2006 08:53 PM
THIS GUY SAYS IT ALL:
As a progressive, I believe in supporting the cause of those who are en la lucha, but insulting my country is not going to fly. Where the hell does all this arrogance come from? Maybe from YOUR President, Vincente Fox... Who seems to feel that America has an obligation to act as his economic safety vent, and to provide him relief for his failed economic policies.
It isn't about racism either. I am medio-Latino. I love the culture, and live in the heart of it. But I also obey the law in the country I live in, the country that accepted me... as long as I followed thier sometimes ridiculous process for residency.
Do I feel the pain of Latinos who leave family, and roots behind to go north? Yeah I do. I once dated a woman from El Salvador who was an illegal. She worked like a slave as a maid to rich white woman, so she could feed her children back in El Salvador. She was grateful to the United States for giving her the opportunity. She would have NEVER insulted the United States or taken for granted the things it gave her, despite the difficulty of her life, and the unjustness of her employment conditions. I often argued with her about illegal immigration. While I understood her point of view, I never agreed with it. Just because it is difficult to do something legaly, does not excuse doing it illegally, no matter how noble or necessary the purpose.
I see the people in the streets protesting and I admire them for their unity and their struggle, even in dissagreeing with the purpose of it. What I don't like is the disrespect for our country, a disrespect which reeks of irony. If you hate the United States so much, go back to where you came from. But the Mexican Flag takes the cake. The protestors obviously feel it represents pride. To me it represents disgrace... a country that never recovered from wars long lost. It represents a country that has suffered from corruption so bad over the last 200 years that despite great resources, it cant take care of its own. It represents a humiliation... One that says, I cant make it in my country, so I am going to come to yours, make it here, but insist on my right to nationalism... My answer, pass a bill... Any bill, and then ENFORCE it!
Posted by: Ken on March 30, 2006 09:10 PM
I just checked online and what I found was disgusting. In Mexico, if you are from another nation, like El Salvador, Guatemala etc...and you cross into the Mexican border illegaly, it's a FELONY!
Yet when Mexicans cross illegally the US border, they cry racism if the US govt wants to pass a bill to criminalize that action.
I agree with you Ken. I didn't care much about this issue at first. I am also very leftist, my parents were hippies. BUT I love America and when I saw those people flying the Mexican flags and acting that we owed them something, my blood was boiling. PASS THE BILL NOW AND ENFORCE IT!
Posted by: Sylla on March 30, 2006 09:18 PM
most people who are against this bill say insane things like "these people have the right to come...they just want a better life...they are nice...they are just like everyone else...etc..."
If this is so, why don't you simply advocate bringing in EVERYBODY in the world who is suffering and want a better life?
Posted by: Jessica on March 30, 2006 09:22 PM
to Jessica, they do want a better life, if they didnt, why would they come to America??? and another thing, why would we bring in everyone that is suffering!!!?? the people that are coming here themselves are the ones wanting help. its not that hard to understand.im all for the border closing and everything, and i have a LOT of pride in my country. i was born and raised here, and i agree with what a lot of people are saying. i see both sides. i got into an argument today with my best friend, shes mexican and she was talkin like all chicana pride and everything, and kinda talkin crap on white people. so yeah, i said something because i see where they are coming from, but dont disgrace this country like that. i told her she needs too see it from americans point of view, and she got the idea. so people, before you choose sides, just look at where the other people are coming from and what they are saying, dont be so closed minded you dont care whats happening in your home town, state and country.
Posted by: Melissa on March 30, 2006 09:31 PM
the Mexican government can do lots to free its people and give them jobs and a decent life,but the country is strapped with corruption and the upper 2% control the country's wealth.
Meanwhile their poor come here to do our menial work, work Americans won't do. They work hard and long hours, sometimes the jefes skip out on their pay, and are subjected to dangerous workplace conditons. Yet they brave it to feed their kids and send money home to their families. Where is the humanity?What is wrong with that?Nothing
Let Mexicans protest and demand from THEIR Mexican government the same way they're demanding here,the rights they well deserve.Right to live a decent life if you work hard. Let the Mexican government work for its people for a change.Its the right thing to do.
Posted by: kiefer on March 30, 2006 11:21 PM
Melissa, thank you for your thoughtful response.
I agree with you when you say that we should look at other people's point of views when debating a topic.
I agree with people saying that these people come here to get a better life. What I don't agree with is when they use that as JUSTIFICATION to explain why they break the law. If we give them the rights to do break our laws by coming here illegally just because they want a better life, why don't you argue that we should extend the same rights to everybody else in the world who needs helps? That would be insane and unfeasible but you catch my drift?
Mexicans are getting this benefit JUST BECAUSE they share a border with us. I don't doubt for a second that milliosns of people in Africa, Asia, the Middle East (yes the Middle East...as much as they say they hate Bush and America, I guarantee you that they would come here in a second if given the opportunity) would love to be in Mexico's spot just so they can get to come to the US.
As the greatest nation on earth and as a nation which has SO MUCH, it's our moral duty to help others, but we just CANNOT keep everybody coming in here, especially illegally. The Mexican government has to have some pride and helps its own people. Exporting your poor to your rich neighbor up north is just not a efficient policy in the long run.
As a liberal, it pains me to see how unfair those immigrants are treated once they are here (no health benefits, live in constant fear of being caught, work their butts off in the hot sun, get paid minimum wage etc...They are basically being EXPLOITED by our corporations). Something ought to be done.
Posted by: Jessica on March 30, 2006 11:31 PM
My problem is not immigrants, it's not even illegal immigrants. What do I care about them? They don't harm me at all. My problem is the fact that when I saw the protests, I had the impression that these people (especially those of LA RAZA, AZLAN)had more allegiance to their countries of origins than to America, while demanind that the US gives them rights. Having living the hell hole you come from (and this include my grandparents who left the hell hole that was Europe after WWI) to seek a better life here, you HAVE TO assimilate, learn English, LOVE AMERICA, RESPECT THE FLAG, and most importantly you have to learn that it's a PRIVILEGE to be an American! We are lucky to be Americans and truly blessed. If you want to be part of that, be grateful that you are here and act like an American. When I see that Mexican flag flying all over the place, I cannot sympathise with your demands.
Posted by: fishbowl on March 30, 2006 11:41 PM
America truly has a knack for spoiling people. It's funny how people who come from countries where they had no rights...countries so fucked up that they had to risk their lives to come here...suddenly they come here and they feel ENTITLE and start demanding rights that are only guaranteed to LEGAL CITIZENS!
This is a SOVEREIGN NATION and has such ought to have well defined laws and enforce them. That means securing its borders.
Posted by: pebble on March 30, 2006 11:47 PM
someone mentioned that many in America armed forces in Iraq are also illegal immigrants! BOGUS! I know because I am in the Armed forces and I checked the data adn we don't have ONE single illegal immigrant. We do however have 70,000 who are permanent residents on their way of becoming citizens. In my opinion, those people should have been granted citizenship as soon as they decided to join the forces. Anyone (I don't care where they are form) who is willing to fight for this country means and risk his life should be given citizenship. Those permanent residents are better men/women than most people who are already citizens. YET they are doing their duty and PATIENTLY waiting their turns. they understand how great this country is, are willing to fight for it even without being citizens. I am against the sort of illegal immigrants I saw protesting on tv. Period. PASS THE BILL AND ENFORCE IT. MILITARIZE THE BORDER. If vicente fox argues that it's a shame and spews nonsense like "this would be as disgraceful as the Berlin Wall", tell him to go to hell...it's HIS responsibility to look out for Mexican citizens...it' s not America's responsibility to help them out. We can help when we can and we need them, but we are in no way OBLIGED to do it.
Posted by: SGTRobJ. on March 30, 2006 11:55 PM
I hate when proponents of illegal immigration say things such as "they are not terrorists. Not one of the highjackers was a Mexican"....NO ONE has ever said that you were terrorists. STOP CONFUSING THE ISSUE. We are saying that the border is extremely porous. As we are speaking now, 60,000 people are successfully crossing it illegally every month (on average 2000 people are apprehended EVERY DAY!). At that rate, one could suggest that it's a POSSIBILITY that terrorist could also enter via the same way (if they haven't already).
If you care so much about America and its safety, the least you can do is to argue that we should secure our borders first and make sure people are not crossing it illegally.
Posted by: getmas on March 31, 2006 12:03 AM
I wouldn't have a problem with illegal immigrants from Mexico if they actually like America. My hunch is that they are only here to reap the great benefits America has offer and ameliorate their lives. I was dismayed a couple of years ago when I learned that Mexicans was chanting the name of Osama binLaden at a US-Mexico soccer match. Link here: http://www.blackfive.net/main/2004/02/mexicans_chant_.html
Mexicans hate Americans, they are deeply resentful of the fact we have so much more than they do...we achieved this with hardwork and with less natural resources than Mexico has. They are also still resentful that we we took the Alamo and kick their butts during that war. THEIR GOAL is to simply reconquer the SouthWest...behind close doors, they argue that it's theirs and it's only right that they take it back. I know this because I have Mexican friends here in San Diego and they have said this many times. I also done a lot of reading on the issue..just check out AZlan's website when you have time.
This bill might be a little harsh, but still it's time that we do something about this. CLOSE THE BORDER and give some foreign aid to Mexico just like we do through USAID with African countries. It's a shame that a great country such as Mexico which has so much given for itself (tropical weather, natural resources, hardworking people and so forth) is so poor today that it is basically sending its sons and daughters up north to clean bathroom, pick tomatoes, and basically let the American corporation enslave them. This is so disgraceful! Vicente Fox has no shame!
Posted by: Kevin on March 31, 2006 12:15 AM
It's Too Late To Try And stop Everything Now! That Bill HR 4437 isn't going to Pass. I Know This is Going to Ruin All You White Folks Lives But Hey Your Going To Have To Deal With it. We Are not Terrorsits we are not Aliens Either. Shit- On The Real We Like Super-Humans. Hard Working, Quick and smart. So Deal With It. We Just Taking back whats ours. If it Weren't for them Indians we would have won the war.
~The World iz z Our'z~
~it's a latin world,
you know it's true!
so don't deney it
Posted by: You scared huh? on March 31, 2006 12:54 AM
Hardworking, quick and smart huh? Why don't you develop your own country then? Have some pride baby! And please stop blaming the "indians" (native americans) for your losing that war. You are a bigot!
You are not a terrorist, but you are an imbecile and America doesn't need people like you. Hardworking immigrants who love America and want to be part of it are welcomed. Anyone spewing nonsense like yours should do us a favor and stay back in the tropical paradise that is Mexico.
Posted by: fcukyou on March 31, 2006 02:13 AM
i agree with what you said too Jessica. but see, You Scared Huh, u need a realization. you're saying if it werent for the indians you would have won the war, if there were no indians, there would be NO war. this is a nation of immigrants. this is no ones land but the indians. mexicans like you are kinda the reason that i agree with this bill, if you want to stay in this country, learn to live it, love it, speak it, represent it, everything. this isnt latinos country, its everyones country.
Posted by: Melissa on March 31, 2006 08:48 AM
Melissa. You are great! I love what you wrote about learning to love America. I just feel like immigrants today (not just Mexican immigrants) just don't love America anymore. They come here just to "get a better life" and reap the benefits she offers. The govt also is doing a poor job assimilating them. This is a nation of immigrants as we have heard so many times on this board but immigrants who came here before came to build it, learn the language, become part of this great nation and felt privileged to be citizens. Now, people come, keep their allegiance to wherever they came from, dont make much effort to learn the language, and just take advantage of the greatness of the country. That's a shame. Soon we will be just like the balkans. I wondered what America would have been if every group of immigrants (Irish, Polish, Scandinavians, Germans, Japanese, Chinese, French, Italians, etc...) refused to learn english, required that everything be both in English and their language, etc...
Posted by: gary on March 31, 2006 10:48 AM
Here are two questions for everyone to think about:
If these ILLEGAL aliens are such hard workers, why are they out on the streets and not at their jobs?
Also if they are the "backbone" of our economy, why isn't the economy affected while they are protesting?
Posted by: SK on March 31, 2006 11:18 AM
The question asked should be, "What is an American?" Not who! Is an American someone born in this country? or, rather someone who appreciates its majesty enough to die for it? Does a true American use color or dispposiion as a crutch to complain against others who fair well? Race, Creed or Color should have no bearing on your status as a TRUE AMERICAN. Does being rich, or poor make me an more or less a citizen?, or one who actually believes in.."A NATION UNDER GOD?".
The latter statement also raise's a powerful question as well, "ARE WE CURRENTLY...ONE NATION UNDER GOD" It's quite odvious from comments posted on this site, anger, frustration and bigotry are signs of a diverse nation competiting for identity! Inspite of historic issues, which has plagued our country for many years, The reality is...Until we tolerate one another, no matter the inefficiencies...THIS NATION CANNOT TRULY CALL ITSELF...AMERICA!
I've served God & Country here, I was born here but also lived and served out of country. My deepest conviction's lie in not only knowing, "who and what I am to my fellow citizens on this blessed continent", but also to my creator as well!
God Bless us all!
Posted by: A. PAYTON on March 31, 2006 11:19 AM
just wanted to add a few points:
1) someone just claimed that "no one said that mexicans were terrorist"--first of all, many have. the old immigration department is now a limb of that homeland security medusa. more importantly, that senseless sensenbrenner from wisconsin has repeatedly pointed to potential terrorism as a leading justification for his 4437.
although the clear idiocy behind this argument is now being noticed, many still point to that
2)many hate the flag waving that has become common during protests and in street festivals etc. this has historically been common, especially during the last great waves of migratioin from europe at the end of the 19th and early twentieth century. The irish, the original mobsters and high gansters, banded together and proudly displayed their heritage AS A REACTION TO THE ANTI-IMMIGRANT BRUTALITY they faced at the hands of other recent arrivals. Some, forced to go fight against mexico barely off the boats, were so fed up with the ethnic attacks and absolute hipocrisy they faced (they were often referred to as similar if not worse than second-class blacks) responded to this oppression by turning sides and fighting for mexico against the cruel and racist trash that ran u.s. armies then (google the story of st patrick or the san patricio battalion). in early chicago, historically considered the city of the 19th century, whole areas were cordoned off with threats of violence grounded in ethnic pride. Germans, poles, and italians -those with some recognition if not ties to the old country-- still display their pride. There is nothing incompatible with loving the u.s. and still loving a heritage that shaped you and half your life. The identity of ALL, AND I MEAN ALL, freshly arrived immigrants (legal or illegal, lithuanina or mexican) has always been one in transition. New bosnian-americans or poles will proudly wave their flags at public events (be it protests or soccer matches) because it is still a part of who they are, AS RECENT IMMIGRANTS. More importantly, political groups are always forced to realign themselves with precisely those common threads they have when attacked as a group. When persecuted, gays, mexicans, and even the kkk latch on to that which they are being persecuted for precisely when the preassure is put on the hardest. As to those of us first (second, third) generation folk that embrace their old culture, there is nothing wrong or inconsistent in holding a strong allegiance to the u.s. and still appreciating mexican culture. To do so does not mean that we privelege one over the other. To be bi-cultural is just anoither way of being in america. Not to be an asshole, but to be more blunt about this, it is not our fault that as far as your old world past is concerned, you are cultural bastards.
3) chicago just passed a resolution effectively holding that, if 4437 or anything similar is to pass, chicago will not comply by forcing its police force or government employees to hound folk for their papers---the last time this great city passed such a resolution was in 1850-- when then mayor Throop refused to have his local forces enforce and round up recently escaped slaves (with the passing of the FUgitive Slave Act), those damn felons.
4) people need to read (be it literature like Saul bellow, nelson algren, james t ferrell on what it was like to be a recent arrival from russia poland and ireland or simple history). the growing illiteracy (of history, of each other, of things that may help us see beyond the narrow confines of our suburb, neighborhood, or trailer park) in this country generates a painful ignorance that can only result in brutal racism. we'll see where we'll be when in twnty years. But to simply blurt out (over and over again)racist idiocies grounded in nothing but a WWF philosophy will get us nowhere. Think before you react.
Posted by: born into terrorism on March 31, 2006 12:53 PM
“Mexicans hate Americans, they are deeply resentful of the fact we have so much more than they do...”
Posted by: Kevin at March 31, 2006 12:15 AM
“well look here White folks. a TRUE MEXICAN SPEAKING.” … “I'm Not Gunna Lie I'm Hatin but at least i don't deney it.”
Posted by: you scared huh? at March 28, 2006 08:21 PM
There’s your proof, Kevin. Spoken from a “True Mexican”.
VIVA H.R. 4437!
Posted by: SK on March 31, 2006 01:33 PM
"born into terrorism" said:
1) someone just claimed that "no one said that mexicans were terrorist"--first of all, many have. the old immigration department is now a limb of that homeland security medusa. more importantly, that senseless sensenbrenner from wisconsin has repeatedly pointed to potential terrorism as a leading justification for his 4437.
although the clear idiocy behind this argument is now being noticed, many still point to that
Noone is saying Mexicans are terrorists, they are pointing out that if Mexicans can come here illegally so easily so can terrorists. Nice straw man argument there "born into terrorism".
Posted by: Digger on March 31, 2006 03:07 PM
well thank you Gary. lol. youre great too. what i say is coming from my heart, im putting myself into both positions, and i see from both points. many of these people are hating on Americans, and like many people have siad, if u dont like Americans, go back to your country. now, i wouldnt say that, because that, to me, sounds a little like racism. but to the americans that are hating on mexicans and other races, thats a disgrace and makes me unproud to be an american. i have so much pride in my country, but all the people that act like that are so un american like. now, thanks that i got that out, lol, to every race, meaning white, black, asian, japanese, everything, if you dont like the way this country and the way it works, maybe you should realize that this country may not be for you, and go back to your country. because everyone has migrated from somewhere and if you honestly think about it, every race besides indians are illegal immigrants, only because since the indians where her first and i know once they saw what the english had done, they didnt want them there but did they listen, no. so technically, every races is illegal. think outside of the box before you choose a side or/and make up your mind.
Posted by: Melissa on March 31, 2006 07:06 PM
and another thing, those of you, especially you scared huh, do need to leave this country. if you want to stay here, unite, dont set yourselves a part from the rest of the country cause you think youre all big and bad because in the end, its this country backing you up, you say stuff like
"Hey Wassup? well look here White folks. a TRUE MEXICAN SPEAKING. I understand that you Crackers Are scared and it's perfectly fine. Your only Scared cuz you know that your jobs are at risk. You guys can diss me on my . Wait You guys Call it" Punctuatuion" it may not be the best but i know you guys get the point. You white people just racis and hard headed peckerwoods. We Started something and Unlike You White Folks we finish it. and we strive to continue to get to our goal to be Legal and United.HB 4437 Will not pass!!! We Won't give up and end up like you white Bumbs living in the streets. And Scott Booth You Can Suck this, Mexican Dick and shove it up your moms old White wrinkled pussy! i know your mom loves dick.since she sucked yours. I'm Not Gunna Lie I'm Hatin but at least i don't deney it. like white deney saying there not Races
Posted by: you scared huh? at March 28, 2006 08:21 PM"
and in the end, youre gonna be all by your lonesome self. since you seem like youre someone who acts all hard. relate what i said to gang banging. everyone knows its pretty much like you cant trust anyone. now, you scared huh? is someone who will think for themself. and let me tell you something, your boys arent always gonna be there for you, so you might wanna lay off your country cause honestly, the way you seem, its you against your country and no one is here to back you up against the all mighty american queen
Posted by: Melissa on March 31, 2006 07:21 PM
you give many of these folk too much credit. many do believe this or some weak-ass variant. its the same type of broke-ass logic that leads a bunch of idiots to claim that we come here to break all laws and create lawless chaos, because we cross over without papers (an unwarranted jump from a particular to a universal). it's the same junk that leads many to claim we have no respect for the "rule of law" because we flout the law reagrding legit entry to the u.s.. It's some funny-ass irony that you straighten out my supposed strawman with a weak-ass slippery slope, the most vacuous of all fallacies. most camel's nose argumnets are grounded in nothing. As any half cognizant mugg will tell you, recent terrorists from spain to london, jerusalem to oklahoma, DID NOT ENTER THEIR TARGET COUNTRIES ILLEGALLY. they either went the visa route or were angry-ass militant homegrowns.
try again son
Posted by: born into logic 101 on March 31, 2006 09:14 PM
There is something to be said for being proactive. Assuming that all attacks will come from those entering through legal means is idiocy.
Terrorism is only one aspect. This country is being invaded and it needs to stop.
Posted by: Digger on April 1, 2006 12:13 AM
your supposed invasion has already taken place. As I'm sure you know, the leading cause behind the current latino population explosion is NOT immigration, but rather, the number of kids our people are having. The invasion, re-conquest, whatever you wish to call it, has been taking place for quite a while. Looking at a bit of the larger historical picture, it is no irony that it is our hard catholicism (a religion brutally imposed by Europeans) that is now the characteristic fueling our repopulating of these lands, something we are repeatedly blasted for (those bunnies gotta stop fucking and start aborting). As you know, this alleged invasion is similar to what a large share of the E.U. is freaking the fuck out about. There and here it is fucking clear that the Empire is striking back (shit, there is nothing sweeter than to witness the proud french freak the fuck out 'cause their ex-slaves have taken over Northern Paris ---there, in spain and in the Indian/pakistani explosion in Britain, true accounting is being had).
Rather than simply exercise our right to wield guns (both literally and argumentatively), we will soon, if we are to avoid chaos and even more violent shit than the race riots of the 60's, have to start a national conversation on what this country is and where it is heading. The winds have changed, and as long as all we continue to do is simply react without thinking, things will truly get ugly.
Obviously, as evidenced in recent discussions of this issue throughout the country--from George Will's increasingly myopic early senility (kindda sad, he used to be a formidable foe) to the kindergarten playground back-and-forth (from BOTH SIDES) seen on blogs and local paper editorials, we are nowhere near such a discussion. It's gonna take a while. I do hope it comes though, 'cause God knows I love this country.
Nemo is going back to slumberland
Posted by: b.i.t. on April 1, 2006 01:44 PM
I am tatally against this proposal because I am hispanicl therefore I don't like the criticism that other people make against my race. It is just stupid that this person proposed this bill. This nation does not belong to the "White People." It is basically made up of immigrants. For just a quick review The states such as Texas, Florida, Oklahoma, California, and many more were part of Mexico. As history went by, those territories were taken by the US from Mexico. Mexicans lived there, and now they are trying to get them back to thier home countries for doing hard jobs such as contruction, labor, landscaping that Americans does not want to perform. They have also helped the US economy, which totally makes this nation to make more improvements. I think this is just stupid. THIS PROPOSAL WILL NOT PASS. Think about it, if it passes, Most than half of the US population will be taken back to their home countries. It will be like the moview "A Day witout a Mexican."
Posted by: Moy on April 4, 2006 12:42 PM
NO hr 4437 !! NOT ONLY ARE MEXICANS AFFECTED BUT AMERICANS AS WELL!! AND LETS NOT FOR GET THAT MEXICANS ARE INDIGENOUS TO THIS COUNTRY! WHO DO PEOPLE THINK THEY ARE WHEN THEY GO BACK TO YOUR COUNTRY WHEN THIS IS PART OF THEIR ANCESTORS LAND!! NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO SAY WHO SHOULD BE HERE AND WHO SHOULDN'T "EVERY ONE MAKES AMERICA WHAT IT IS" FOR MANY YEARS FEAR WAS THE MAIN POINT BUT AS AN MEXICAN-AMERICAN SPEAKING THAT FEAR HAS LEFT FOR CENTURIES "THE MEXICAN RAZA SAY PRESENTE" NO ON HR 4437 IT WILL AFFECT EVERYONE............AND LETS NOT FORGET THE INNOCNT VICTIMS WHO JUST WANT TO BETTER THEIR LIVING!!!
Posted by: MIKA on April 5, 2006 05:08 PM
I am currently a high school student and I'd just like to say that I'm willing to do everything possible to gather support against this bill and show my disapprovement. It is the most disheartening legislation written in decades and I am very distraught by what is happening. People have to remember that immigrants are humans too, fighting for survival and seeking nothing but freedom, and justice.
Isn't that what being American is all about?
Posted by: J on April 5, 2006 10:48 PM
HR4437 IS A NARROW MINDED WAY OF DISPLAYING ONE'S INSECURITY PUBLICLY TO THE NATION THROUGH RIDICULE A HUMILIATING, LEGISLATIVE POLITICALLY LABYRINTH CONCEPT FOR THE PURPOSE OF SENCELESS AND GREATLY MEANINGLESS SELF ADMITTANCE AND BOTH FATELESS AND FOOLISH PRIDE. A MEANINGLESS "HORRAH" IF YOU WILL. NO ONE PERSON IN THIS COUNTRY IS HERE TO DEMISE THIS GREAT COUNTRY OTHER THAN TERRORISTS.US MEXICANS ARE DELIBERETLY MIGRATING HERE FOR A CHANCE OF A BETTER LIFE AND I FOR ONE AM AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT LEGALIZING BOTH ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS AND MAKING LEGAL U.S. RESIDENTS CAN DO TO PROSPER THIS NATION. I CAME HERE LEARNED YOUR LANGUAGE(EXTENSIVELY) WENT TO YOUR SCHOOLS(WILLINGLY)ADAPTED YOUR CULTURE(RELENTLESSLY), AND ACCOMPLISHED MUCH AS AN ILLEGAL ALIEN. THE PRIDE AND JOY OF EVERY IMMIGRANT FAMILY WITH A DREAM FOR THEIR CHILDREN, AND I'LL ADD NO CRIMINAL RECORD AS WELL.WE WERE NOT LAZY WE WERE HUNGRY. YES WE CUT IN LINE.WE WERE DAY LABORERS, AND EVERYTHING ASSOCIATED WITH POVERTY STRICKEN IMMIGRANTS.BUT
THIS(HR3347) NEEDS TO BE SEEN FOR WHAT IT IS. I AM A REGISTERED DEMOCRATIC U.S.CITIZEN AND CONTINUE TO VOTE BUT DO NOT BE FOOLED BY THIS LEGAL SUGAR COATED RACIST BILL TO ACT UPON ITS REQUEST.I CAN ONLY SPEAK FOR MY SELF WHEN I SAY ITS TIME ACT AMERICAN NOT ANTI AMERICAN. VOTE AGAINST HR3347
Posted by: FRANCISCO TX on April 9, 2006 11:07 PM
I believe an education is the door to a successful future and to our humanity. An education is necessary for a country to flourish because it offers opportunities for individuals to build on their knowledge of the world around them. When you are educated you will be able to help yourself, your family, and the people you are working with by expressing intelligent ideas, innovative strategies more thoughtful and future planning. You also enrich the country in which you are living and help it become more productive. In order to be respected by society, you need education.
Everyone in the United States should have the right to be educated in the world’s best school system. There are more great schools across this nation than in most of the industrialized world. What will become of the nation and its citizens if all are not fully and equally educated? Think about it! The U.S. Constitution guarantees the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. But what happiness can be gained without full access to education?
America does a great mandating all U.S. children to attend school; however, some immigrants that come to the U.S. arrive without all the necessary documents required for them to pursue citizenship. Undocumented citizens have to pay more to attend a State College than other in-state students. Is this fair or right? Is it appropriate? Is this what a nation founded by immigrants should do the newest individuals seeking to enrich their lives with what has become recognized as one of the biggest prizes for all humanity? I believe education is a gift that should be shared with everyone who wishes to accept it and make the most of it. Therefore, I propose that we give the chance to accomplish their American Dream.
First, we need to pass The Dream Act: a bill that will allow undocumented students to legalize the status to qualify for financial aid and go to college. In support of this bill we need to ask Governor Romney to sign and pass so it could become a law.
I believed the In-State Tuition bill was supposed to pass to allow undocumented students to pay the same amount of tuition as resident students. But as we all see that in June 2004 Governor Romney did not pass the bill. Maybe he thought that the best way he can take advantage of those undocumented students is by not passing this law. Maybe all of his passions are about money, business and prejudice. I can’t imagine how a man like Romney can refuse the immigrants to achieve the American Dream. In addition, he thought the only way the international high school students will be well educated is by taking the bilingual program out of this state. I remember in January 2004, Governor Romney spoke about an education plan to prepare every single child for an ever more competitive future. In a speech entitled “Legacy of Learning” he mentioned that he wants our best and brightest to stay right here in MA. However, Romney vetoed this In-State Tuition bill, the one chance for students to remain and to be educated in MA. Currently, if you are the child of an undocumented parent, you have to pay out-of-state tuition to go to college in MA, even though you have lived here for your entire life! That is terrible.
According to the National Immigration Law Center, 50,000–65,000 undocumented students graduate from U.S. high schools each year. Many of these students could become doctors, lawyers, paramedics, public health workers, teachers, and leaders of the future if only they were given a chance to receive the same rights and education as every other student. Without access to in-state tuition bill at the public colleges and universities, most of these potential leaders will completely fail, possibly becoming drug dealers, robbing banks, and creating a lot of violence in the community because they cannot afford to go to college to receive a higher education to realize their dreams. Unfortunately, some will turn to crime if they can’t find a good job due to a lack of a college degree.
Many other states, Texas, California, Utah, Washington, New York, Oklahoma, Kansas, Illinois, Arizona, Colorado, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Maryland, Oregon, Rode Island, Virginia, and Wisconsin have all passed the in-state tuition bill for all young immigrants who graduated from a state high school and have lived in the state for almost their entire lives just to continue their ambitions later in life.
Please give students a chance to achieve their enthusiastic dreams by providing a good college education in their lives. They are human beings too, so for those of you who are against those two bills, do you realize that you are destroying their future? Allowing them the same advantages like me, a resident immigrant, to pursue what they want surely would make a great impact in this country.
Posted by: Vanessa Bernard on April 11, 2006 03:25 PM
If we give them all legal status, then two things will happen:
1. They will demand higher wages and then the price of lettuce will go up to $10.00.
2. They will quit their jobs because they will be Americans and supposedly Americans don't do those jobs.
After giving it some thought, I say we need a bill that removes the illegal aliens from the country and makes the emloyers felons.
Posted by: SK on April 13, 2006 08:26 PM
wow its been a while since i wrote, guess you all are slowing down on this, are you all gonna stop standing up for what you believe in?
Posted by: Melissa on April 13, 2006 09:43 PM
lets march with the mexicans, but lets do it in mexico. they need to understand what we have here we fought for. it didn't come free. our immigrant forfathers have paid for what we have by fighting in world wars and often each other to have better living conditions for their families. this issue is sort of like your neighbor living in a better house than you, so you say i have a right to live in it with him because it's nicer than mine. even though you never paid a dollar on building it, just live there free, save your money and send it to another country, where no one demands that their government treats them fair or gives them the billions of dollars that the american have sent for their welfare in the past. they wait untill they come to america and demonstrate in the streets with their foreign flags. forgetting they are here illegally. no country in the world would allow this. hope this doesn't turn in to a civil war.people all across america are getting sick of illegal aliens trying to tell them what they have to do for them.
Posted by: bill blanko on April 22, 2006 06:00 PM
How should immigrants be handled?
Immigration has been an extremely controversial issue in this country. Lawmakers struggle to overhaul the nation’s immigration laws. There was a proposal known as the H.R. 4437 that was introduced to the U.S. Senate last year on December 16 2005, which purpose was to enhance law enforcement with illegal immigrants. Unlawful presence in the United States is a civil offense. In addition, if the bill is passed, it will treat illegal immigrants as criminals, and they will be sent back to their home countries. It would be an aggressive felony which will carry the worst possible immigration consequences. Instead of the H.R. 4437, the U.S. Senate should provide solutions to the problem such as a co-worker program, legalization of undocumented residents already here, and to improve laws in education with illegal immigrant students.
A solution that will be gratefully beneficial to illegal immigrants, and Americans instead of the H.R. 4437 proposal, would be that the Senate should provide a co-worker program, which will benefit millions of illegal immigrants who are working in the US illegally. In fact, in a Newsweek article, national reports shows that “illegal immigrant workers are the ones that perform jobs such as construction, landscaping, labor work and others which are less paid jobs and risky to do.” For example, after this proposal was introduced, the Hispanic population started protesting against this outrageous proposal which will negatively affect people like me for having illegal family members and friends who are in this controversial situation. Immigrants throughout the nation made protest against this proposal for being discriminatory toward the Hispanic community. Here in Texas, the LULAC organization set up a date for a march that took place on Sunday, April 9 2006 in Downtown Dallas; the biggest protest since the Civil Rights Movement. Thousands of people marched together to the City Hall, showed their unity, peace and love for this country that has given them the chance to have a better way of living and to support their families (life and economics.) In addition, they don’t want to be treated as criminals and sent back to their home countries because they are also making economic contributions to make this nation thrive everyday.
Another solution to the anti-immigrant proposal would be the legalization of undocumented residents already here. Immigrants already in the United States should be allowed to apply for a residency that will allow them to have their legal documents and to be able to travel to their home countries without fear they would not be allowed to return to the United States. This will help keep immigrants from being abused and exploited. President George Bush said in an interview, “A new system will be more compassionate. Decent, hardworking people will now be protected by labor laws, with the right to change jobs, earn fair wages and enjoy the same working conditions that the law requires for American workers.” For example, one of my sister’s-in-law just got her green card few months ago in Mexico. Now, she is able to come to the US legally to work and to start taking advantages of her residency such as working, and getting credit, being able to have a license, and many opportunities that illegal immigrants wish to have. She told me “I feel so excited and happy because I have gotten something that I always dreamed for, my US residency. This would open me many doors and I should take advantage of that as soon as possible.” Therefore, the government should provide the legalization of those illegal immigrants that already have a job here, it will make it even easier to collect taxes from them, so that they can help pay for the social services they use. It will also help the Homeland Security get a better handle on who is in the country and where they are.
Another solution to the anti-immigrant proposal would be to improve laws in education with illegal immigrant students. The government should grant permanent residence to undocumented immigrant children who complete high school, go to college, or even join the military. This would really be helpful for illegal immigrant students who come from other countries and continue their education here. However, when it comes to having a job, after having a degree, it is not easy for illegal immigrant student to get a job because they don’t have a social security number to rely upon. For example, I have a friend named Sara who came from Mexico few years ago and she finished high school with a 3.8 GPA. She had a pretty good grade point average, and wanted to go to University of North Texas to get her business degree, but she was an immigrant student and could not continue her education. She tried everything she could to be accepted at the university, but it was inevitable, her dreams were thrown away to the trash because of her legal statue. She told me “It is not fair that I was not accepted in UNT, not just because I did not have a social security number. I have good grades, and I think that’s all it matters.” I feel sorry for my friend Sara because I knew for all the hard circumstances she went through in order to get the GPA she had achieved. I have heard many cases such as the one as my friend; it really makes me mad because how can it be possible that the government is trying to hire people from foreign countries with a degree to come to work the US?, when it can not even provide helpful laws for illegal immigrants who have gotten an education in America and could not continue their education because of their legal statue in this country.
The H.R. 4437 proposal has totally being a controversy last few past weeks. However, there are many people who are willing the President to promote more specific immigration laws for those who people who come to this country to make themselves a better way of living. Instead of the proposal, the senate should provide different kinds of beneficial proposal such as a co-worker program, legalization of undocumented residents already here, and to improve laws in education with illegal immigrant students that will compromise both the Americans and Illegal immigrants for the improvement of this great nation.
Posted by: Moy on April 27, 2006 10:35 AM
How should immigrants be handled?
Legal immigrants should be allowed to stay.
Illegal immigrants should be removed from the U.S. and sent back to their home countries. It is an administrative law, but there is a penalty for it, and that penalty is removal from the U.S. Immigrants should wait their turn and not try to jump in front of all the ones waiting to come here legally. Do I get to go to the front of the line at the grocery store because I'm hungry and a good, hard working person. I don't think so.
Posted by: SK on April 27, 2006 08:30 PM
I think what Bush is doing is wrong. Most people dont even know what they are talking about, they just agree with there friends or family when they havnt even read the facts of what really happend. If the government really does try to get rid of the immigrants then they will just hurt themselves. We shouldn't even get to say what to do and what not to do. The only people that does get to say what to do is the Native Americans that were here first. They need to stand up and do something about this. Maybe they got better ways to run this country.
Posted by: Lorenzo, Lorraine, and Antonio on May 1, 2006 03:59 PM
"I think what Bush is doing is wrong."
Posted by: Lorenzo, Lorraine, and Antonio at May 1, 2006 03:59 PM
I agree. What Bush is doing is wrong. He wants to give all the illegal aliens amnesty. He calls it Guest Worker Status. What's the difference? I guess you want all the illegal aliens sent home also. I'm glad to hear that.
People say that it is impossible to get rid of 12 million people. I say Mexico did it, why can't we!
Posted by: SK on May 2, 2006 01:44 PM
hey i said nothing like that SK. we are mexicans and we are human beings with reel feelings. and that all the things that are going on is effecting our emotions. so what if the united states never had mexicans, where would the united states be?
Posted by: Lorenzo, Lorraine, and Antonio on May 3, 2006 04:02 PM
The point I was trying to make is this. I don't know where many of these protesters get their info from, but alot of them are anti Bush when Bush always says we need a guest worker program. I wrote that because you said that most people don't even know what they are talking about. The United States gives illegal aliens more rights than Mexico does and all the illegal aliens still demand more. What gives a person the right to demand things from a country they are not a citizen of, and show no allegiance to. When they protest and wave their native country's flag they are showing me that their true allegiance is to that country, therefore they should be sent back to their home country. Believe it or not but it wasn't illegal immigration thay built this country up to what it is today.
Posted by: SK on May 3, 2006 08:48 PM
I hope they send them all back....Cause we need this county the way it was back in the 60s and 70s...The USA has gotten out of hand since all of them been here...
I am voting yes on the bill...This is coming from a chicana breed and born here and so was my anchestors way back in the day...
They take everything way from the american people...They get so much welfare it isnt a joke..
So bring back the world without fewer mexicans..
Posted by: Cathy on May 3, 2006 09:09 PM
my parents came her illegal but you dont see them tearing up the country. they say that the white people are the ones that take all the welfare. if people were to live the life that the mexicans, latinos, or hispanics go thru then youll see that we worked our ass off and get nothing in return. we try to be nice but the white people just spit in our face. if you dont like mexicans and they say hi to you then atleast say hi back or something dont give them that stupid sick dog look. thats all i ask. just respect.
Posted by: Lorenzo, Lorraine, and Antonio on May 15, 2006 01:11 AM
I lived in a town that was 60% Mexican. We had the highest welfare, crime, unemployment and teen pregnancy in the state per capita. My wife was hit head on by an illegal that didn't speak English, didn't have a driver’s license and didn't have insurance. Guess who had to pay for that? We did because he fled the country after the accident.
If you came over illegally you broke the law and did it knowingly. I don't have a problem with Mexicans coming over legally, it's the ones that sneak over. By the way we speak English here, learn our language! The USA flag is the only flag that should be flown on any public building, don't desrespect our flag by flying your above ours. If we were to go to your country we would be expected to speak to you in Spanish and abide by your laws. Do the same in our country. We could guard our boarders like other countries and shoot to kill when someone tries to cross the boarder illegaly, that's actually not a bad idea. Shouldn't take to many dead bodies for people to understand that they are not wanted in our country with out proper paper work.
Posted by: Chris on September 6, 2006 12:48 PM
It gets me mad to read what most of u ppl have to say...whats with all the name calling and stuff?...I'm a Mexican and born here I don't know much spanish as a lot of Mexicans do and I don't really care the bill is suppose to be targeting all immigrants but in reality it only seems to be targeting Mexicans why is that?...So what people come to this country illegal who cares!...I might not be that old enough to understand why all u older people are arguing about a stupid bill that shouldn't have been passed in the first placed.This country was first founded by immigrants for thousands of years people had to struggle to where we are all now. I dont see why some people can't accept others. What I've noticed about immigrants is that they are very hard workers either its in jobs or in school they come here to make something of themselves not like people that were born here. I have nothing against any race because I know that we are all equal white,black, or brown....documented or not we are all the same...we all have feeling and stuff what makes us any different than immigrants yeah we might have jobs and education but we are still the same in the inside no matter what and its sad to see this nation fall apart!
Posted by: Nessa on September 24, 2006 12:51 AM
"So what people come to this country illegal who cares!"
Posted by: Nessa at September 24, 2006 12:51 AM
I care! Here's the reason why. Illegal aliens come here to work. They don't mind living with 2 or 3 families in one house so they can split the bills, making them lower. They also work without paying taxes. This means they can work for much lower wages. This pulls down the pay grade for many jobs. Eventually you will have to have a college degree to earn a living and there will only be two classes of people, rich and poor. Sounds like Mexico to me. Is thet what you want?
Posted by: SK on October 3, 2006 12:37 PM
The ILLEGALS coming here don't want the American dream, they want the to live the MEXICAN dream of living in the USA with out the responsiblity or loyalty that comes with it. They don't work hard for America, they work hard for themdselves and send our dollars back to Mexico to bring in another batch of ILLEGALS.They run down neighborhoods when they move in by craming far too many people into single family dwellings, they refuse to speak or learn English, it's not that hard "amigo" turn off your Spanish speaking tv stations and tune into Sesame Street, you'll learn English for free. The jobs that you say Americans wont' take , Americans would take them if they paid a decent wage. By you coming over here and taking them you exploit yourselves and the wages remain low.Hospitals have had to close their doors because of the influx of immigrants that don't pay their bills. Schools and courts have to have interpreters on hand because immigrants won't learn English, this puts an added economic strain on American taxpayers that have to pay for those services.
ILLEGALS say they're doing nothing wrong, you broke a law to get into this country and you break more by stealing identities and driving without car insurance.
Illegals now want to tell the USA how they're supposed to be treated and that they have "rights"!!
As far as I'm concerned if you're not a LEGAL citizen of this country and you got in here by sneaking in, YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS!!! If you put as much time and energy into changing YOUR countries government, and DEMANDING that they provide you with decent paying jobs, you wouldn't have to break the law and come over here, you could speak Spanish all day long and never have to learn English, and you could have as many "immediate" and or "extended family memebers as you want living in your house.
Posted by: Lynn on April 28, 2007 06:53 PM
One thing that everybody appears to be forgetting, this is not a bill to preserve the Mexicans out of the US. It doesn't seem that a lot of border crossers seem to know this or care. I have numerous pals from Europe that have lived right here in Arizona and when their visas ran out they had to go again to Europe as much as they didn't want to. A couple of of them have applied for citizenship but the series is long... Immigrants are what formed the US but illegally flooding the region is not the answer.
Posted by: Tattoo removal on November 7, 2010 11:45 PM
It's much harder to get into this country legally than with other countries. They come here for opportunity. And for those who are saying "We would take the jobs if illegals wouldn't take them first for lower wages", you know thats a lie. For example: In 1920, a farm journal referred to the sugar crop (of sugar beets) a "Mexican Harvest" because sugar-beet companies were SEARCHING for Mexican labor. There were also contractos who would "rent out" 66,100 Mexican Americans every year to work in agriculture, mining, construction, and other industries like that. They would send workers by railroad, truck, or passenger cars, and many times they would cram 60-65 Mexicans in a truck, where they usually had to stand the entire way, stoppoing only "a few times for bowel evacuation and eating" or for gas and oil, and some workers going to as many as 3 employers each day. Then the people "renting" laborers would pay the contractor who would deal the wages unfairly. Why would they rent laborers? Because "real Americans" didn't want to do the back-breaking work that Mexicans were willing to do. And since they knew they couldn't find high-paying jobs because of a lack of educational opportunities or because of theyre legal status, they would pay low wages, knowing it was take it or we'll find someone else. There was even the Bracero Program, in which they were (again) contracted for periods of time to work in agriculture, in the the 40's going on until the 60's because the government saw it as "legalized slavery" because of the indecent wages they were paid and the hours they had to endure. From the Mexican-U.S. war to now Mexicans have been treated disrespectfully. Keep in mind that the U.S. unlawfully stole over 55% of Mexico's territory with the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo (which Mexico was forced to sign). Even in the treaty they ensure the safety of existing property rights, which they never even honored. People were kicked off of land that had been in their family for generations by who? Immigrants from Europe.
And also notice that all the negative comments on this message board have name calling, hatred, and just plain ignorance. They all say the same thing: "If you're going to be here learn the language!", "YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS!", "Too many families live in one house", "They're lazy and don't have real jobs". Fine. You're all entitle to your opinion. But let me just say this: How easy is it for you to learn a foreign language that you've never been around? They have no rights? Really? They had no human rights when they were being "rented out" like dogs? Would you be able to go to a different country to look for work and immediately find safe and decent housing or would you rather live with others so you can save? No real jobs? I didn't realize sweating all day building someone else's house or tending after harvest wasn't a "real job".
But before you post anything else, provide substantial evidence to back up your opinions like I did. Don't disrespect people and call them names because that's when people stop listening to your opinions.
Posted by: Jackie on December 14, 2010 06:05 AM
for one: how can ILLEGAL aliens say that anything is "unamerican" if they are not EVEN american, they are illegal and breaking our laws, getting favortizm, and selling drugs, and killing, two: THEY ARE TAKING OVER,AND WHY DOES OUR GOVERNMENT ALLOW THIS, there is more to all this than meets the eye. What about the other immagrants, like the Russians, and Asians, and the Irish, and the black, and more...they don't get this special treatment, its wrong and it shows.Something is up, and real wrong, none of this adds up.
Posted by: michelle on July 10, 2011 11:52 PM
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